Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

david watts

New member
For what it's worth I used to work in the insurance industry.

What Admiral (and other companies) are saying here is that the contract between them and the policyholder is null and void as a result of drink driving. The policyholder/driver is therefore uninsured.

In the event that an uninsured (or untraced) driver causes damage, the Motor Insurer's Bureau steps in to settle the claims. The MIB is funded by a levy on all UK insurers. The MIB randomly selects an insurance company to investigate the incident. Where there is evidence of some connection between an insurance company and the car/driver the MIB instruct that company to investigate as "Insurer concerned".

In this incident Admiral are investigating on behalf of the MIB as insurer concerned. The MIB has the right to pursue the uninsured motorist for any payments made. The first thing any investigating insurer will do is to track the motorist and get him to sign the indemnity form.

Of course most uninsured motorists will not have sufficient fund to re-reimburse and the debt will not be pursued, or if it is the motorist will declare bankruptcy.

Of course any amounts paid out should be checked thoroughly but remember the innocent victims here are the ones being compensated.

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roadrunner

New member
My son fell foul of Admiral's terms and conditions relating to accidents whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

Anyone else in the same position with Admiral or other companies.

Section 5 of the Admiral policy contains the following :-

"If an accident happens whilst you or any person entitled to drive under Section 5 of your current Certificate of Motor Insurance is convicted of an offence involving drink or drugs, or was driving under the influence of drink or drugs, no cover under the policy will be provided and instead, our liability will be restricted to meeting our obligations as required by the Road Traffic Act. In those circumstances, we reserve the right to recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including all legal costs), whether in settlement or under a Judgment, of any claim arising from the accident."

Firstly I suggest anyone avoids Admiral unless you are 100% certain that no drivers on the policy will never D&D

By agreeing to these terms it appears you are accepting unlimited liability. If they succeed with their claim in court you could be financially wiped out.

My son has no assets but they want him to explain how he is going to pay them back.

I have not seen this in my new LV= policy or previous Esure policy.

I doubt whether it is enforceable and suspect they are just fishing for people to top up their coffers.

As an aside it has affected the cost of my new policy as the "accident/claim" is visible to my new insurer and costing me an extra £850.

As the policy holder my son's misdemeanour's are affecting me directly.

Admiral have not been able to explain if a claim has been settled against my policy, or if they are out of pocket through complying with the Road Traffic Act.
Hi Depressed Dad,

I'm new to this forum so not sure what the process is for PM but am in a very similar situation. It would be greatly appreciated if you could share some advice based on your experience.

Best Wishes
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
For what it's worth I used to work in the insurance industry.

What Admiral (and other companies) are saying here is that the contract between them and the policyholder is null and void as a result of drink driving. The policyholder/driver is therefore uninsured.

In the event that an uninsured (or untraced) driver causes damage, the Motor Insurer's Bureau steps in to settle the claims. The MIB is funded by a levy on all UK insurers. The MIB randomly selects an insurance company to investigate the incident. Where there is evidence of some connection between an insurance company and the car/driver the MIB instruct that company to investigate as "Insurer concerned".

In this incident Admiral are investigating on behalf of the MIB as insurer concerned. The MIB has the right to pursue the uninsured motorist for any payments made. The first thing any investigating insurer will do is to track the motorist and get him to sign the indemnity form.

Of course most uninsured motorists will not have sufficient fund to re-reimburse and the debt will not be pursued, or if it is the motorist will declare bankruptcy.

Of course any amounts paid out should be checked thoroughly but remember the innocent victims here are the ones being compensated.
Nothing to do with the MIB David. The insurer is obliged to pay the third party costs. I suggest you read the thread again and also read Admiral's policy document and the Road Traffic Act.

In fact I recommend every motorist reads the Road Traffic Act and their policy document from cover to cover. It might make you want to change your insurer,
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Hi Depressed Dad,

I'm new to this forum so not sure what the process is for PM but am in a very similar situation. It would be greatly appreciated if you could share some advice based on your experience.

Best Wishes
Same advice I would give anyone. Seek legal advice. A solicitor (ideally one who specialises in contract law) or Citizens Advice Bureau perhaps.

Get Admiral to explain all the costs and challenge where you don't think it is right. The level of incompetence and laziness is staggering.

If you believe they didn't make this significant term clear to you then complain and if you are not happy with the response you can take your complaint to the FOS.

They will ask for an earnings statement and expect you to work out a repayment plan with them. You are under no obligation to provide that information until such time they have taken you to court, won the case and secured a court order to get you to disclose your finances.

Negotiate the costs down where you believe there is opportunity.

Good luck.
 

Steven67

New member
Hi guys,

It has been interesting to read through the numerous pages on this topic. I am in a similar position myself, was insured with Admiral made contact with a barrier on a roadway (£5k worth of barrier apparently) and was subsequently found over the limit. At this stage I should be clear that I am not looking for a lecture from some self righteous individual that has never made a mistake in their life and come onto this forum to have a dig.

I have received a letter from the MIB stating that the Roads Agency have contacted them in the first instance and I can only assume that upon MIB making some enquiries it's came back that Admiral have voided my policy and unless I have another insurance policy in force for the time of the accident the MIB will pay the Roads Agency and look to recover the costs from myself?


I was of the belief that it would be Admiral if anyone that would come looking for the repayment of 3rd party risks? I'm off to Citizens advice tomorrow and if that doesn't provide any clarity ill speak to a specialist lawyer.


On the upside... if there is such a thing the car has been paid off and lawyers fees/fines etc so I'm hooefully through the worst part.


Just thought I would throw this up and see if anyone had the MIB acting instead of the insurance company?



Cheers.
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Steven, I am surprised Admiral are not on the hook for this and why the MIB are pursuing because I thought the Road Traffic (which all drivers really need to know by heart) was quite clear.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

Combined with Admiral's latest policy wording, note bold bit :-

"No cover under the policy will be provided and instead, liability will be restricted to meetingthe obligations as required by Road Traffic law. In those circumstances, we will recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including all legal costs), whether in settlement or under aJudgment, of any claim arising from the accident"

Note the subtle change of wording from original 2010 policy in italics.
 
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Steven67

New member
Upon reading your previous exploits it was my belief that Admiral would be coming to recover their costs however on the occasion it seems that this is not the case. Like I said I'm off to seek some legal a advice and see where I stand.

Worst case scenario I'll agree to pay them back £10 a week for the next 10 years. :))
 

stoopid

Active member
I'm 2 weeks off being back on the road after my second offence in 10 years. This fact makes me an idiot, take a few digs at me all you like, what I have done is disgusting and I am the luckiest person in the world due to the fact that I never hurt anybody.

I have just reinsured my car and after reading this thread decided to read the small print. I too won't be covered if I am found to be under the influence of drink or drugs on my new policy.

I have already declared myself an idiot for what I have done, however..... I would be even more of an idiot if I thought that my insurance company would pay out to a third party if I caused damage/injury while driving under the influence!!

Suck it up and move on!
 

BigLStarr

Member
Has anybody actually been taken to court yet over this?
Does anybody know of any actual result or outcome of a case like this? I would be really interested to know, this is stressing me out beyond belief. The sums I apparantky owe are simply staggering and a lot more than anybody on here. I fear if worst comes to worst I will most definitely be made bankrupt. Depression is starting to take hold of me I feel like there is no way out. Please any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Did any of you sign the indemnity form?
My insurance company are making out if I don't sign it, each 3rd party looking to recover costs will essentially take me to court personally
 

Steven67

New member
I've not been taken to court yet however I have been contacted by MIB who thereafter stated that Admiral have voided the insurance policy as they have no isuarble assets in regards to myself and MIB will be settling the claim with the company claiming for the barrier repairs. In turn MIB will (if I don't pay them) take me to court and recover their costs. As such I think I will have to agree a payment plan..... £5 or £10 a week is the most they'll be getting from me tho.... offset the financial hit over a period of years and it becomes much less of a kick in the prevebials!
 

dvb723

Active member
I've not been taken to court yet however I have been contacted by MIB who thereafter stated that Admiral have voided the insurance policy as they have no isuarble assets in regards to myself and MIB will be settling the claim with the company claiming for the barrier repairs. In turn MIB will (if I don't pay them) take me to court and recover their costs. As such I think I will have to agree a payment plan..... £5 or £10 a week is the most they'll be getting from me tho.... offset the financial hit over a period of years and it becomes much less of a kick in the prevebials!
So today's the day my insurance - admiral - have found out I was over the limit. they have now stated my insurance is void and I have to send my certificate back and i'm now liable for all the costs. Damages to car and personal injuries.

Who would I need to speak to regarding this and what grounds do I have. I own no house, car, no savings :-(
 

Steven67

New member
You could always file for bankruptcy if you owe them silly amounts of money and have no means to pay it.

Speak to a lawyer but tbh they will just tell you that Admiral will take you to court and subsequently get a judgment against yourself and you will still be liable for the bill.
 
Hi Guys,

Firstly good luck with all your situations on here

I am in the same situation and am Insured by Elephant. 3 and half years after the accident, I received a bill of £36000 which i simply cannot afford.
After reading this thread and DepressedDads advice, I have asked the company for a break down of the costs. I did sign the Indemnity back 3 and half years ago as the insurance company said they would not help me at all and I would need to go to court. They told me if i sign, they would help me reduce costs but it looks like i have been duped by them.
Apart from the legal advice and CAB, is there anything else I should do?
 

steve1500

New member
Been watching this thread for a while, My daughter fell foul of Admiral's drink drive clause.

Because of this forum I made damned sure that she did not sign the indemnity form, we wrote back saying if she signed it, she opening herself up to unlimited liability.

I can only re-iterate what depressed dad has said when they send their bill. Go through it with a fine toothcomb. Always reply by post with a 2nd class stamp & get a certificate of postage.


There maths is absolutely atrocious. If someone told them there were 30 days in February they'd believe it. Hire cars is an absolute racket. If a hire car is involved it should be a like for like.

If you pick something up (which you will) they will try to dodge the answer so go back at them
 

Guitarist

New member
Been watching this thread for a while, My daughter fell foul of Admiral's drink drive clause.

Because of this forum I made damned sure that she did not sign the indemnity form, we wrote back saying if she signed it, she opening herself up to unlimited liability.

I can only re-iterate what depressed dad has said when they send their bill. Go through it with a fine toothcomb. Always reply by post with a 2nd class stamp & get a certificate of postage.


There maths is absolutely atrocious. If someone told them there were 30 days in February they'd believe it. Hire cars is an absolute racket. If a hire car is involved it should be a like for like.

If you pick something up (which you will) they will try to dodge the answer so go back at them
Hi steve I'm just wondering if you've or your daughter has agreed on paying?
 

Guitarist

New member
My son fell foul of Admiral's terms and conditions relating to accidents whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

Anyone else in the same position with Admiral or other companies.

Section 5 of the Admiral policy contains the following :-

"If an accident happens whilst you or any person entitled to drive under Section 5 of your current Certificate of Motor Insurance is convicted of an offence involving drink or drugs, or was driving under the influence of drink or drugs, no cover under the policy will be provided and instead, our liability will be restricted to meeting our obligations as required by the Road Traffic Act. In those circumstances, we reserve the right to recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including all legal costs), whether in settlement or under a Judgment, of any claim arising from the accident."

Firstly I suggest anyone avoids Admiral unless you are 100% certain that no drivers on the policy will never D&D

By agreeing to these terms it appears you are accepting unlimited liability. If they succeed with their claim in court you could be financially wiped out.

My son has no assets but they want him to explain how he is going to pay them back.

I have not seen this in my new LV= policy or previous Esure policy.

I doubt whether it is enforceable and suspect they are just fishing for people to top up their coffers.

As an aside it has affected the cost of my new policy as the "accident/claim" is visible to my new insurer and costing me an extra £850.

As the policy holder my son's misdemeanour's are affecting me directly.

Admiral have not been able to explain if a claim has been settled against my policy, or if they are out of pocket through complying with the Road Traffic Act.
Hello DepressedDad I'm quite in the same situation as your son, I was wondering what was the outcome of all this and if you've went ahead and decided to pay the ridiculous amount of money to Admiral.
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
Have anyone got any updates on those insurers pursuing for recovering money or taking to court? Thanks.
Seems the problem with Admiral won't go away. They must be recouping money through this process.

After a few years of sporadic communication with Admiral and me continually challenging the costs it all went quiet.
Statute of Limitation kicked in after 6 years from the date of the accident. They can't make a civil claim.

They are so inefficient and disorganised that I don't know if they consciously stopped the pursuit and went for easier targets.

To date I still haven't seen or heard of a case being brought to court although I haven't looked in the past couple of years. I doubt they want the publicity and suspect they are not confident of winning cases because they do not act in the best interest of he policyholder by keeping costs to an absolute minimum.

Most other insurers don't have these terms and they will pay third party costs without trying to reclaim. They probably won't pay for damage to your own vehicle and that's fair but they have a legal obligation to pay legitimate third party claims.

Just my thoughts. I have no legal expertise or qualifications.
 

firemansam007

Active member
Thanks Depressed Dad. Few questions..

It would be great to provide some tips about the challenges,questions you have raised on your behalf.

Did you engage with a solicitor on your behalf?

Did Admiral engage with any Debt collection agencies?

How to deal with them without getting into trouble.

Thanks,

Sam
 

Depressed Dad

Well-known member
I did check with a couple of legal advisors but just free advice rather than in depth (costly) advice.

They tended to look at the T&Cs and side with Admiral.

It is a complex area which I’ve tried to explain in this lengthy thread. As an individual it is hard to go head to head with a big corporate and their resources.

I did also raise it with the FOS and had a partial success in making sure that me as the policyholder did not have a claim against me. This was because my son was a named driver on my policy and because the policy was voided there wasn’t actually a claim on my policy.

I just questioned and challenged everything about the claim. I found out the other drivers car had been written off twice before and Admiral hadn’t bothered to check. They offered pre medical settlements for whiplash. They didn’t gave the police report to check the circumstances of the accident and who was in the car.
They paid more in excessive car hire charges than the car was worth. They didn’t corroborate the damage report and couldn’t provide adequate photographs of the damage to the other car. They also got their facts wrong and sent letters they shouldn’t have and I pulled them up on it.
That’s just the stuff I can remember.

Each case will be different but the key principle is that Admiral take the line of least resistance and do not do enough to mitigate the losses. They just try to pass the unchallenged, usually exhorbitant costs onto the shamed driver. I think that is the key point I would challenge if it went to court.

Also, how many people bother to read all the terms and conditions and the road traffic act to understand what they are signing up to.
I haven’t looked for years but only the Admiral group plus maybe one other had this drink drug condition explicitly mentioned. Why don’t other companies pursue people for costs like Admiral. My guess is it’s on shaky ground and that’s why it never seems to go to court. I suspect most people end up agreeing a payment plan with Admiral and are scared of being taken to court. It never got near court for my sons case, just threats.

With regard to debt recovery companies they just get the job of hassling people to pay up rather than Admiral doing it themselves. They’ll be more assertive and apply pressure but until they take you to court and win they have no legal powers to recover the money. I only dealt with Admiral directly, no other parties were involved.

If you do go to court and lose then you are facing a very different situation where they have legal rights to recover the money under a CCJ then you might have bailiffs on your doorstep.

Don’t ignore any official court papers or you lose by default.

I need to repeat I am not a legal expert and recommend anyone in this situation gets professional advice.

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