Penalties should be reviewed.

Convicted Driver Insurance
If I ignore your advice! Who are you to give 'advice' to other people?

Maybe you should go away and learn how to properly interpret statistics instead of trying to give 'advice'.
 
Lady driver, u are a ****ing idiot! I hope you dont see the error of your ways, do.it again, and.get slapped with the 3 year ban. Imagine the moaning then!
 
Who is jacket to.give advice????!!!! Who are you to question the justice system? You broke the law, was caught, convicted and rightly punished, JUSTICE SERVED!
 
My ban is over now & I'm back on the road. :cool:

I was reading (yet another) crime story in the news about a girl who stabbed another girl in the head with a pair of scissors, her excuse was being too drunk to know what she did & she was left off with a suspended sentence.

That is more dangerous to the public than someone who's 10mg over the limit, they won't be shown any mercy however...
 
If I ignore your advice! Who are you to give 'advice' to other people?

Maybe you should go away and learn how to properly interpret statistics instead of trying to give 'advice'.

I think the statistics are fairly clear - most people who are caught drink driving for a second time are given a 3 year ban...................

Another piece of advice for you - if you post information about yourself on a public forum then you may not always like the responses you receive from people.:D
 
LadyDriver


  • What we think doesn't change anything in your life.
  • What we think doesn't change the fact that you're talking complete rubbish.
  • What we think doesn't change how arrogant you are or that you have an inflated sense of self-righteousness.
  • What we think won't help you to understand because you won't listen to anyone.

So why do you care what we think? Go and tell someone else.
 
Jaket you say:

"Don't you get it? 17 percent (almost 1 in 5) deaths on our roads are caused by the very few people who drink and drive."

However in the same year (2009) 12% of breath tests were positive. I don't think this is "very few" in comparison.

Plus the figure of 12% is people who have failed a breath test, i.e. they were doing something wrong. How many drivers would fail a breath test, but don't crash, speed or otherwise attract the police's attention?

As this article suggests, far more than 12%:

http://www.admiral.com/pressRelease...a quarter of motorists admit to drink driving
 
In addition, your reoffending rates are too high.

From this same website in the insurance section:

Research has shown that many drink drivers learn from past mistakes and the chances of re-offending are often slim. Only around 12% of offenders are convicted of a second offence within 10 years.

Your calculation of insurance premiums is far too clear cut - what about the person's age, car, claim history? My premium is going up 50%, not 400%.
 
Jaket you say:

"Don't you get it? 17 percent (almost 1 in 5) deaths on our roads are caused by the very few people who drink and drive."

However in the same year (2009) 12% of breath tests were positive. I don't think this is "very few" in comparison.

Are you for real?

People are tested BECAUSE they were doing something to make the police think that they might have been impaired, this would obviously predispose the results towards a higher percent of positive tests, than if random tests were carried out.

Plus the figure of 12% is people who have failed a breath test, i.e. they were doing something wrong. How many drivers would fail a breath test, but don't crash, speed or otherwise attract the police's attention?

Of course there are peope who get away with it, but if you randomly tested people regardless of how they were driving (i.e. stop every 10th car) then the figure above would be diluted to about 3% (it has been done).

As this article suggests, far more than 12%:

http://www.admiral.com/pressReleases...rink%20driving"

This doesn't mean that 25% of drivers are over the limit at any one time, Thicky Mcknow****all. If you are looking at how many accidents are caused by drinkdrivers as a proportion of road users you have to look at the sample. 17% of deaths are caused by drink drivers. The percentage of drivers who are drunk at any one time is ~ 3%. What that means, is that a disproportionate amount of deaths on our roads are caused by people who are drunk.
 
If you were a first time drink drive offender who could prove in court it was out of character why should you be given the same penalty?

How the hell could you prove it? Do you have video footage following your every move during the 24 hours preceeding every time you have previously driven a car?

a suspended sentence would deter any normally law abiding driver from even thinking of breaking the drink/drive law again.

I have no doubt that it would, but obviously a suspended prison sentence is a much more severe criminal punishment than the small/medium fine, which you were given. In terms of criminal justice, what you are asking for here is a harsher sentence (I'm sure had you plead your case hard enough in court they would have obliged - shame they didn't given your clear inability to accept responsibility for your own wrongdoing). For many offenders, the long term effects of a suspended prison sentence would be more determintal, not just to their career, but also to many other aspects of their life, than a fine.

Notwithstanding, and as has previously been explained to you, a driving ban is a civil punishment imposed on you by the DVLA for failing to adhere to the terms which you agreed to when they awarded you with a license to drive a motor vehicle. This is entirely divorced to the criminal punishment which you were given. If you want to suggest that being caght speeding should be 'rewarded' with a greater punishment to make it in lin with drink driving, then fill your boots, but your comparisons with other criminal offences are absurd - as your criminal punishment was much lighter than, for example the suspended sentence given to the girl in the scissors attack.

In some respects I do have sympathy, as it is a shame that someone should lose their livelihood because of one mistake, and it is frustrating to those who do require a vehicle for work that the punishment has a greater impact on them than people who have done the same crime but don't require a vehicle for their work. At the same time, the proposals / alternatives which you suggest are proposterous - and would be more harmful to the majority of offenders than the current ones. What you want is a punishment that would have 'suited you better' and that is just not how the law works. Is it fair that some are affected more than others? Probably not, but we all knew the consequences before we offended - you need your car for work so don't drink and drive. Its a bit like the other poster on here who wrote:

I would've been happy with a 3 month ban or a 12 month curfew

The punishment is not there for your conveniance, or to make you happy, it is a punishment! There are other users on here who have lost their livelihood and have been shown sympathy - but the way you have come on here blaming everyone but yourself and making, frankly astonishing recommendations, has made you come across as ignorant, without remorse and obnoxious.
 
Fair enough, however you are quite an objectionable **** if you don't mind me saying.

Why? Because I get frustrated by people who spout drivel as fact?

Whilst the internet is a wonderful thing for my reasons, one problem with it (and forums in particular) is that gives a platform to people whose opinions really should remain private (usually because they are ignorant).

The reason for this is that other ignorant people will read it and take it as the truth, when in fact, it is bull****. What this leads to is a culture of ignorance and widespread misinformation (for an example see the sticky on travel to the USA). All I'm saying, is if you don't understand something, don't criticise others - especially when THEY were correct in the first place.

*(for THEY, read 'JAKET')
 
A Road Safety Research Report that appears on the Department of Transport website shows:
Speeding is not safe; speeding is serious; speeding causes crashes..
more people die from speeding than from drink/drug driving. Speeding drivers are 3–5 times more likely to crash.


I don't think anyone has to be expert at interpreting statistics to understand the highlighted text above that states a fact very simply in such a way that even a youngster could understand.
Or should we suppose the DoT is just trying to protect drink drivers by posting a false report?

It's been interesting to write here, see the responses, and realise any chance of serious debate isn't possible on a site like this.

'What was I Thinking' hopes I won't learn and will err again. Jaket keeps giving 'advice' of the type do as I say only. Are these comments constructive, decent, educated?

Whatever your reasons for not challenging the automatic ban they are clearly different to mine. You've voiced your views overall without observation of my admission that what I did was wrong, that I don't believe drink driving is right, and so on. But then it takes an educated mind to discuss matters as opposed to having your say without consideration of facts and so on.

Someone did at least have the intelligence to point out the matter of a scissor attack and the 'justice' handed out. Perhaps that person does understand, unlike the rest, the bases of my argument against the automatic ban.

Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the Winter in England. I'm leaving the UK on Saturday to stay with friends in the Caribbean until late January. No need for a driving licence, friends drive but house right by the beach so not far to walk for sun and sand.

Watch your speed and be aware that more people die from speeding than from drink/drug driving.
 
A Road Safety Research Report that appears on the Department of Transport website shows:
Speeding is not safe; speeding is serious; speeding causes crashes.. more people die from speeding than from drink/drug driving.

But as has been pointed out to you, probably >90% of people on the road at any on time are speeding to some degree. There are very few people, for example, under 35 in a 30 zone, and even less under 80 in an 70. Drink drivers make up 3% of people on the road at any one time. That means that the number of deaths caused by drink drivers is disproportionately high.

Speeding drivers are 3–5 times more likely to crash.

Maybe compared with people adhering to the speed limit, certainly not compared with DRINK DRIVERS they are not.

I don't think anyone has to be expert at interpreting statistics to understand the highlighted text above that states a fact very simply in such a way that even a youngster could understand. Or should we suppose the DoT is just trying to protect drink drivers by posting a false report?

Of course they are easy to understand, but they do not support your argument. In fact you are misrepresenting the data.

It's been interesting to write here, see the responses, and realise any chance of serious debate isn't possible on a site like this.

I have responded to you on several occassions, on each time what I have told you is correct, and has not been challenged by you. Your problem is you cannot accept that you are wrong. The (absurd) ideas that you have put forward are not in line with the points you are making. You also change your argument continuously.

Whatever your reasons for not challenging the automatic ban they are clearly different to mine. You've voiced your views overall without observation of my admission that what I did was wrong, that I don't believe drink driving is right, and so on. But then it takes an educated mind to discuss matters as opposed to having your say without consideration of facts and so on.

I have discussed, and have put arguments to you which you have not accurately responded. I am more intelligent and educated to a higher level than you could ever even hope to be.

Someone did at least have the intelligence to point out the matter of a scissor attack and the 'justice' handed out. Perhaps that person does understand, unlike the rest, the bases of my argument against the automatic ban

As has been pointed out to you, the scissor attack was dealt with by way of a much more sever criminal punishment than your drink driving conviction.
 
"Why? Because I get frustrated by people who spout drivel as fact?"

No, because you use personal insults, rather than just sticking to correcting me.

"The reason for this is that other ignorant people will read it and take it as the truth, when in fact, it is bull****. What this leads to is a culture of ignorance and widespread misinformation (for an example see the sticky on travel to the USA). All I'm saying, is if you don't understand something, don't criticise others - especially when THEY were correct in the first place.

*(for THEY, read 'JAKET')"

I didn't criticise him in any way, shape or form.

He wasn't correct about the reoffending rates was he? Or his insurance premium "drivel"? Perhaps you should also personally insult him for getting something wrong?
 
He wasn't correct about the reoffending rates was he?

I quoted a 20% to 30% reoffending rate. Reference below
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...drive-motorists-guilty-for-a-second-time.html

Your reference was based on a 'survey' whereas this reference is based on actual convictions so will be a more accurate reflection.

Or his insurance premium "drivel"?

I did not post any "drivel" as you put it. I simply explained to Trigger3 why his insurance premium may be loaded for good reason and not just because of an 'insurance scam'. I think most people reading this forum realise that there is no fixed formula for insurance quotes.

Any insurance quote will be based on:

The driver

The underwriters own 'view' on the risk

The risk profile of the company's existing clients ie they will want to spread their risk and will therefore increase premiums where they have too much exposure / reduce it where they want to increase exposure

The profit margin they expect to make on any given risk

The above will mean anything from a zero increase (I bet at sometime somewhere someone has even got a lower quote!) for some people to others being unable to get insurance at the other end of the spectrum.
 
Reoffending: you are misinterpreting the statistics (although to be fair the article encourages this in the way it sets out the facts).

One in four convicted drink drivers have been convicted before - if you collected a random 100 convicted drink drivers, 25 would have a previous conviction.

This is completely different to saying the following: if you collected 100 first time drink drivers, 25 will do it again.

This is from a ROSPA factsheet:

18% of convicted drink drivers who did not attend a course had re-offended compared with only 7.6% of those who had attended a course.

i.e. 12% overall

Insurance:

What you have written above is perfectly reasonable. Telling someone that their premium will go up by about 5 times, based upon some spurious calculation, is not.

 
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