Hi all,
While I'm waiting for my court hearing I keep on researching the international law about my case and I've finally spotted the exact legal grounds allowing any nation to detain a foreign licence when imposing a driving ban. Maybe it's obvious for users of this forum but as I'm learning about all this now, unfortunately too late, I'll share my new "discovery" here.
The relevant law predates the EU and it's valid in a much larger area of the world, considering that the signatories are scattered across the globe. The article that validates the reply I had from Price wrt the likelihood to get out of the court with my plastic licence is article 42. The original text can be found at page 44 of
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 1042/v1042.pdf#page=54 (the URL is correct because page 44 of that document is the 54th page in that PDF), but it's concise enough to be pasted in full here:
"Article 42. SUSPENSION OF THE VALIDITY OF DRIVING PERMITS
1. Contracting Parties or sub-divisions thereof may withdraw from a driver the right to use his domestic or international driving permit in their territories if he commits in their territories a breach of their regulations rendering him liable under their legislations to the forfeiture of his permit. In such a case the competent authority of the Contracting Party or sub-division thereof withdrawing the right to use the permit may:
(a) withdraw and retain the permit until the period of the withdrawal of use expires or until the holder leaves its territory, whichever is the earlier;
(b) notify the withdrawal of the right to use the permit to the authority by or on behalf of which the permit was issued;
(c) in the case of an international permit, enter in the space provided for the purpose an endorsement to the effect that the permit is no longer valid inits territory;
(d) where it has not applied the procedure for which provision is made in subparagraph(a) of this paragraph, supplement the communication referred to in sub-paragraph (b) by requesting the authority which issued the permit or on behalf of which the permit was issued to notify the person concerned of the decision taken with regard to him.
2. Contracting Parties shall endeavour to notify the persons concerned of the decisions communicated to them in accordance with the procedure laid down in paragraph I (d) of this Article.
3. Nothing in this Convention shall be construed as prohibiting ContractingParties or sub-divisions thereof from preventing a driver holding a domestic or international driving permit from driving if it is evident or proved that his condition is such that he is unable to drive safely or if the right to drive has been withdrawn from him in the State in which he has his normal residence."
It's not common to find laws so clearly worded also for the "layman" and this is why I've copied and pasted the whole article as it is in its original form.
My question around UK authorities detaining a foreign licence is answered by case 1.a, considering nevertheless that all those subparagraphs are preceded by "may". So the answer provided by Price is perfectly fine because indeed UK authorities are entitled by this article to withdraw and retain my driving licence. However, again as Price mentioned, if I leave the UK territory before the end of my ban I would be entitled to get my licence back.
In any case, and this is a recurring topic in this forum when holders of UK licences discuss about driving abroad (which is the precise mirror image of my case), according to paragraph 3 even if I keep my physical EU licence in my pocket while being in the UK, that plastic card would bear no validity in terms of right to drive until the end of the driving ban.
At this point I'm wondering again about the related practicalities. I will indeed travel multiple times abroad, regardless of whether I'll drive abroad, while definitely still residing in the UK for more than 185 days and thus remaining a UK resident.
Price mentioned something beyond the above article, which is the end of the following paragraph (I've highlighted it in bold):
If it is sent to DVLA, all you have to do is contact them in advance of your trip and say you require it for use abroad and they will send it to you to use and then return to them until the end of your ban.
If Price is right, the whole ordeal of sending my plastic card back and forth would be quite daunting and certainly expensive both in terms of time and money, if I will go through it each time I'll travel. On the other hand the Vienna Convention simply states "whichever is the earlier" at the end of 1.a. Therefore if I ask for my licence before my earliest trip, I should be allowed to keep it thereafter. There is always paragraph 3 protecting the right of the UK authorities to deny the validity of my licence in UK (and Ireland due to mutual agreements) until the end of the driving ban.
McIannelli stated
The DVLA don't like the fact that people can be banned in the UK, and then drive legally in Europe. People can only do this if they retain the actual physical licence after their disqualification.
but still if my trip outside of the UK is earlier than the end of my ban (which will definitely be the case regardless holidays, if only to visit friends and family in my home country) I should be allowed to get it back.
In summary, back to practicalities, I'm wondering:
1) Would it be too "cheeky" to mention the above to the court, hoping to persuade them that it's easier for all parties involved to leave my EU plastic card with me?
2) Does anyone know why the DVLA would be entitled to ask my licence back at the end of any, or each, trip?
3) Am I correct in believing that, only for that additional restriction, Price was wrong regarding the detail of returning the licence to the DVLA after the trip?
Reading the Vienna Convention makes me wonder also about 1.b as I've never heard of that and I'm not sure what consequences it might have regarding the validity of my licence according to its issuing country. But this could be the subject of another post.
Thanks again, I'm looking forward to receiving more feedback.
Cheers,
Z