Depressed Dad
Established Member
Get some debt advice from StepChange or Citizens Advice. They should help you with best options to deal with the debt.
Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy
- Thread starter Depressed Dad
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Get some debt advice from StepChange or Citizens Advice. They should help you with best options to deal with the debt.
Hardluck
Member
Well with the economy the way it is I won't be buying a house for a few years anyway, and I'll find a way round bad credit some how.
Thank you I will do when I've reached the end, but I'm not done arguing with them quite yet. They just resent me the response I messaged you back in April(?) and I quite disagree with a number of their responses. The car hire for one does not sound right at all. So once I've collected myself I'll write a response to that.
Rob988
Member
Hi all,
Despite Admiral sending me a proof of NCB email months ago claiming to have paid out around £8k in respect of a third party claim, they sent me a new email about 2 weeks ago seeking recovery of around £30k.
I’ve already drafted a comprehensive request for information letter etc as something weird has gone on there. I’m now wondering if I should send it as a physical letter as suggested by some as opposed to by email.
Has anyone dealt with them exclusively via letter vs email and did it seem to have any positive effect? I can keep a trail of evidence regardless.
Despite Admiral sending me a proof of NCB email months ago claiming to have paid out around £8k in respect of a third party claim, they sent me a new email about 2 weeks ago seeking recovery of around £30k.
I’ve already drafted a comprehensive request for information letter etc as something weird has gone on there. I’m now wondering if I should send it as a physical letter as suggested by some as opposed to by email.
Has anyone dealt with them exclusively via letter vs email and did it seem to have any positive effect? I can keep a trail of evidence regardless.
LouiseL
Member
Hi Rob. My son is in a similar situation I think. He crashed in Dec 2021 whilst under the influence of drugs. Admiral is the insurer. They refused to engage with him until about 2 months ago when they finally spoke to the police officer who attended the scene. The police are not bringing charges because it took so long to get the blood test results that they have run out of time. However, they have given Admiral a copy of the results and told them what they think was going on. Obviously he is to blame is lucky To have escaped prosecution. He knows that they will come after him for repayment of the TP costs that Admiral have paid out - currently about £15k we think. However, he has received letters from 2 separate solicitors who are acting for specific individuals who are coming after him personally. He spoke to them both. The first one accepted that they should contact Admiral. They said that the police didn’t tell tham that he was insured at the time of the accident. The second one said that they have tried to contact Admiral repeatedly and had no response. They have issued him with papers - not saying he needs to attend court but saying that he needs to respond by completing and sending to them (and lodging with the court) a response with 2 choices. Either yes he accepts liability and will pay the costs £9k+interest or no he doesn’t accept it and is willing to go to court to fight it. the paperwork says that if he does nothing he will be deemed to have accepted liability. The deadline for the response is 5 October. He has spoken to Admiral every day last week and they just keep robbing him off saying they can’t help but they’ll get someone to call him back. They never do. He has contacted 3 solicitors to try to get advice and that have all said they don’t deal with this! We are in Scotland. I am at my wits end and his mental health is in tatters. Can you offer any help? Thanks.
Depressed Dad
Established Member
I corresponded by letter but I guess these days people are more used to emails. Letters seem more formal.
Letters will slow the process down and it saves having to print emails if you want to keep a physical file of the correspondence
Rob988
Member
Hi Louise,
Did he inform Admiral at the time of the incident that he was alleged to have been under the influence? It is my understanding that once Admiral (and by extension any other insurers with a DD exclusion) become aware of this they inform the Policyholder of the breach of T&Cs (an insured person being involved in an accident giving rise to liability whilst under the influence of Drink or Drugs) and that no cover will be provided and they instead revert to their responsibility to settle any Third Party claim as required by Road Traffic Law.
What should of then happened is Admiral should have sent what’s called a Consent and Indemnity form to the policyholder or named driver involved, signature of which allows them to take control of the Third Party claim and it also serves as a promise from the policyholder to pay up to the (inevitably grossly inflated) costs incurred by the claim. It has been documented in this forum that signature of this rarely has any impact on the final outcome which is the insurer seeking recovery from the Policyholder or named driver.
In your son’s situation it seems the incident has occurred and there has been zero correspondence from admiral for nearly 20 months. Now he has been approached directly by TP Solicitors. The only explanation I can think of for this is that your son firstly did not receive/sign any Consent and Indemnity form and the Third Parties did not receive/sign what’s called an Assignment and Agreement form (which again would give admiral the ability to get in early and deal with the claim). What’s now happened is your son has received correspondence directly from the TP solicitors. The same happened in my case several months back, it transpired that the TP Solicitors were not aware of Admirals involvement despite my signing of the C&I form many months prior and subsequently Admiral acknowledged this and took control of the claim going forward.
In your son’s case, if no forms have been returned by him or the TP, then Admiral is still obliged under Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him and, in time, recover the costs paid.
I’m afraid to say I’m not entirely certain on what action should be taken now, in my case I phoned them and (rather robustly it must be said), informed them I had been served with a court summons directly by the TP solicitors. They advised I was to do nothing and allow them to be brought in as “second defendant” by the court.
In summary; the money will inevitably have to come from Admirals own coffers to satisfy the claim as your son was insured at the time of the incident. It is up to them to facilitate this and later recover the cos ya back from your son. All I could suggest is phone them once again and tell them you are under the impression they are bound by Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him in the first instance. If they still refuse to be involved then there could be something specific to your case which enables them to have no involvement? Although I have no idea if that’s even possible if he had valid insurance from them at the time.
I am in no way qualified in this area, I’m merely in the same shoes as your son trying to negotiate my way through it with as little financial destruction as possible
The process that most seem to go through in a general and simplified sense is:
Accident -> Insurer informed -> Insurer Notifies Policyholder of breach of T&Cs etc -> Consent and Indemnity form issued -> Regardless of C&I Form signature, Recovery of Outlay attempts begin
Hopefully this gives you insight into how the process SHOULD look but I apologise I haven’t been able to provide a clear answer.
Rob988
Member
I reckon I’ll try a letter and see how they respond.I corresponded by letter but I guess these days people are more used to emails. Letters seem more formal.
Letters will slow the process down and it saves having to print emails if you want to keep a physical file of the correspondence
I believe Someone else in here did the same and they simply phoned that person up upon receipt of it and made vague reference to it before threatening him some more so we shall see
Depressed Dad
Established Member
Admiral are liable for the third party claim but have the right to pursue your son for the money after they have paid out.
It may need the third party to take your son to court and secure a judgment against him. Admiral are then on the hook to pay up.
That is how it is supposed to work.
In the past they usually short cut the process and settle before it gets to court.
If it goes to court then Admiral might step in and become co-defendants. It is in Admirals interest to reduce the amount of the claim if possible.
I can understand the stress you and your son are feeling. However, if he has no assets to speak of, or little spare income it'll boil down to his ability to repay over time.
Without admitting any liability the third party needs to share with you the details of the claim and try all means possible to try to settle before going to court. No doubt the claim is inflated and needs challenging.
Not sure if it's possible but if it does go to court see if you can add Admiral as co-defendant.
I keep advising people to use Citizens Advice or Step Change to help with debt management. They are probably inundated but they should be able to come up with the best way to deal with the debt.
He can only pay what he can afford and there might be a way to time limit the debt. Worst case is an unsettled CCJ stats on record for 6 years. It severely messes up Credit ratings but there is always light at the end of the tunnel.
Depressed Dad
Established Member
Hi Louise,
Did he inform Admiral at the time of the incident that he was alleged to have been under the influence? It is my understanding that once Admiral (and by extension any other insurers with a DD exclusion) become aware of this they inform the Policyholder of the breach of T&Cs (an insured person being involved in an accident giving rise to liability whilst under the influence of Drink or Drugs) and that no cover will be provided and they instead revert to their responsibility to settle any Third Party claim as required by Road Traffic Law.
What should of then happened is Admiral should have sent what’s called a Consent and Indemnity form to the policyholder or named driver involved, signature of which allows them to take control of the Third Party claim and it also serves as a promise from the policyholder to pay up to the (inevitably grossly inflated) costs incurred by the claim. It has been documented in this forum that signature of this rarely has any impact on the final outcome which is the insurer seeking recovery from the Policyholder or named driver.
In your son’s situation it seems the incident has occurred and there has been zero correspondence from admiral for nearly 20 months. Now he has been approached directly by TP Solicitors. The only explanation I can think of for this is that your son firstly did not receive/sign any Consent and Indemnity form and the Third Parties did not receive/sign what’s called an Assignment and Agreement form (which again would give admiral the ability to get in early and deal with the claim). What’s now happened is your son has received correspondence directly from the TP solicitors. The same happened in my case several months back, it transpired that the TP Solicitors were not aware of Admirals involvement despite my signing of the C&I form many months prior and subsequently Admiral acknowledged this and took control of the claim going forward.
In your son’s case, if no forms have been returned by him or the TP, then Admiral is still obliged under Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him and, in time, recover the costs paid.
I’m afraid to say I’m not entirely certain on what action should be taken now, in my case I phoned them and (rather robustly it must be said), informed them I had been served with a court summons directly by the TP solicitors. They advised I was to do nothing and allow them to be brought in as “second defendant” by the court.
In summary; the money will inevitably have to come from Admirals own coffers to satisfy the claim as your son was insured at the time of the incident. It is up to them to facilitate this and later recover the cos ya back from your son. All I could suggest is phone them once again and tell them you are under the impression they are bound by Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him in the first instance. If they still refuse to be involved then there could be something specific to your case which enables them to have no involvement? Although I have no idea if that’s even possible if he had valid insurance from them at the time.
I am in no way qualified in this area, I’m merely in the same shoes as your son trying to negotiate my way through it with as little financial destruction as possible
The process that most seem to go through in a general and simplified sense is:
Accident -> Insurer informed -> Insurer Notifies Policyholder of breach of T&Cs etc -> Consent and Indemnity form issued -> Regardless of C&I Form signature, Recovery of Outlay attempts begin
Hopefully this gives you insight into how the process SHOULD look but I apologise I haven’t been able to provide a clear answer.
The consent and indemnity forms are actually a way to circumvent or shortcut the 'proper' process which is the TP taking you to court, securing a judgment, then Admiral settling the CCJ if it's not paid within (I think) 6 weeks.
LouiseL
Member
Hi What happened was that one of the owners whose car he hit told Admiral that they thought he was drunk at the scene. Mt son also told Admiral that he had been breathalysed and had blood taken. He hit several cars - all parked and empty of people. Admiral spent 20 months telling him that that could not deal with his claim until they had a police report as an allegation of drunk driving had been made. He corresponded with them via Webchat many times during this period and got the usual misleading information. He made a complaint to them about their handing of his case and they gave him £400 compensation for their ineptitude. He has never received any form to sign. For some months he could access his account online and could see the third party costs that were being paid out. Eventually the online account was no longer accessible.Hi Louise,
Did he inform Admiral at the time of the incident that he was alleged to have been under the influence? It is my understanding that once Admiral (and by extension any other insurers with a DD exclusion) become aware of this they inform the Policyholder of the breach of T&Cs (an insured person being involved in an accident giving rise to liability whilst under the influence of Drink or Drugs) and that no cover will be provided and they instead revert to their responsibility to settle any Third Party claim as required by Road Traffic Law.
What should of then happened is Admiral should have sent what’s called a Consent and Indemnity form to the policyholder or named driver involved, signature of which allows them to take control of the Third Party claim and it also serves as a promise from the policyholder to pay up to the (inevitably grossly inflated) costs incurred by the claim. It has been documented in this forum that signature of this rarely has any impact on the final outcome which is the insurer seeking recovery from the Policyholder or named driver.
In your son’s situation it seems the incident has occurred and there has been zero correspondence from admiral for nearly 20 months. Now he has been approached directly by TP Solicitors. The only explanation I can think of for this is that your son firstly did not receive/sign any Consent and Indemnity form and the Third Parties did not receive/sign what’s called an Assignment and Agreement form (which again would give admiral the ability to get in early and deal with the claim). What’s now happened is your son has received correspondence directly from the TP solicitors. The same happened in my case several months back, it transpired that the TP Solicitors were not aware of Admirals involvement despite my signing of the C&I form many months prior and subsequently Admiral acknowledged this and took control of the claim going forward.
In your son’s case, if no forms have been returned by him or the TP, then Admiral is still obliged under Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him and, in time, recover the costs paid.
I’m afraid to say I’m not entirely certain on what action should be taken now, in my case I phoned them and (rather robustly it must be said), informed them I had been served with a court summons directly by the TP solicitors. They advised I was to do nothing and allow them to be brought in as “second defendant” by the court.
In summary; the money will inevitably have to come from Admirals own coffers to satisfy the claim as your son was insured at the time of the incident. It is up to them to facilitate this and later recover the cos ya back from your son. All I could suggest is phone them once again and tell them you are under the impression they are bound by Road Traffic Law to settle any unsatisfied judgement against him in the first instance. If they still refuse to be involved then there could be something specific to your case which enables them to have no involvement? Although I have no idea if that’s even possible if he had valid insurance from them at the time.
I am in no way qualified in this area, I’m merely in the same shoes as your son trying to negotiate my way through it with as little financial destruction as possible
The process that most seem to go through in a general and simplified sense is:
Accident -> Insurer informed -> Insurer Notifies Policyholder of breach of T&Cs etc -> Consent and Indemnity form issued -> Regardless of C&I Form signature, Recovery of Outlay attempts begin
Hopefully this gives you insight into how the process SHOULD look but I apologise I haven’t been able to provide a clear answer.
Once they had spoken to the police they wrote to him stating that they would not pay out for his car and that ”Furthermore, our Claims Dept may contact you regarding reimbursement of any costs we incur as a result of a Third Party claim”. They quote General Condition 6.
The second lawyer who say they have been trying to contact Admiral have told him that they have also sent the same legal docs to Admiral.
i think it’s extremely cruel of Admiral to mess him around like this and not tell him what they intend to do about the impending court action. He thinks he should say that he intends to fight this claim because he scared that if he does nothing and Admiral do nothing by 5 October he will, by default, be accepting the liability.
Rob988
Member
I see, it sounds to me that Admiral have already said they’re likely to try and recover costs therefore acknowledging the fact they will be on the hook.
I would say get them on the phone and confirm whether or not they are in receipt of a copy of the TP Solicitors legal documents and what (if anything) he should be doing about them. Their answer should be to leave it to them to settle the claim in court in the first instance (it was in my case).
If he reply’s back challenging the claim himself I expect this could complicate things if admiral are actually intending on being brought in as second/Co-defendant. They need to provide you with clarity on this.
Rob988
Member
Another point to consider: if admiral do intend on challenging the claim in court and instruct your son to do nothing further then it’s a good idea to attend the hearing as an observer as was suggested to me by depressed dad. This will be at the all-Scotland Personal injury court in Edinburgh most likely.
I was simply unable to do so due to work commitments but I wish I had now given the amount they want off me has somehow tripled somewhere down the line.
LouiseL
Member
Thanks. That’s really helpful.
LouiseL
Member
Hi If he can’t get any clarity from Admiral I think he’ll have no choice but to say he’s going to defend it otherwise he has to accept the liability and pay or do nothing and be deemed to have accepted it by default. He’s been calling Admiral every day and they simply fob him off - they say things like “your claim is on the old system so we can’t access it so we‘ll get someone to call you back” Or “There’s nobody available in that team, we’ll get someone to calL you back”. They never call back. They will never give a direct number or email so he just gets the run around from whoever answers the phone. I also don’t understand why none of the lawyers that he has approached for help won’t take it on. Sorry to be a pain but I’m really worried.
Depressed Dad
Established Member
Raise an official complaint with Admiral. That should grab their attention and also a step towards taking the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
Write Admiral a letter, enclosing the correspondence from the third party and send it 'signed for'. Ask them if they want to attend court (assuming that happens), or if your son needs to deal with it himself and they will then settle any outstanding CCJ.
The Road Traffic Act says Admiral have to settle the claim if you son does not pay it.
If Admiral wake up it's in their interest to challenge the third party claim in court as the did with Rob's. However, they are not obliged to.
Write Admiral a letter, enclosing the correspondence from the third party and send it 'signed for'. Ask them if they want to attend court (assuming that happens), or if your son needs to deal with it himself and they will then settle any outstanding CCJ.
The Road Traffic Act says Admiral have to settle the claim if you son does not pay it.
If Admiral wake up it's in their interest to challenge the third party claim in court as the did with Rob's. However, they are not obliged to.
Depressed Dad
Established Member
I assume he doesn't want to, or can't pay up?
Is there likely to be more claims in the pipeline? I think you said he hit a number of cars.
Is there likely to be more claims in the pipeline? I think you said he hit a number of cars.
Rob988
Member
The majority of this has been answered already, but with reference to lawyers, finding one with the in-depth knowledge required to fight this sort of thing at a reasonable price has proved near impossible in the past. The only ones I’ve been able to find are usually instructed by the insurance companies themselves and charge unaffordable rates for individuals unfortunately (£260 an hour has been my best find).
In fact, in my experience some solicitors have been downright snotty towards me when explaining the situation. There seems to be the attitude that those in this situation simply must pay the figure asked or risk serious financial repercussions which would be reasonable if it weren’t for the inflated nature of most claims.
His best bet once the court aspect is dealt with and admiral seek reimbursement is to challenge every single aspect of the number their after, drag it out all the way as far as he’s comfortable and once he’s exhausted every option find a reasonable solution to deal with the debt without too much of an impact on his life.
LouiseL
Member
Thank you
LouiseL
Member
Thank you
LouiseL
Member
Thank you
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