RTC (still waiting for blood results)

Convicted Driver Insurance

MrLuk

Member
Hello,
I was involved in a RTC at the beginning of July where I hit parked car. I know I made a terrible mistake but I feel like I didn’t had a choice other than drive. At that moment it was the only way out for me (more on that after)

Before the accident I drank maybe 6/7 Guinness over 3 hours and had food before drinking and during drinking so I probably didn’t feel it as much as I would if I drank on empty stomach.

During the RTC my airbag went off and I got hit pretty hard. I was bleeding from my eyelid so the police called an ambulance where they took a blood sample around 4/5 hours after the accident. (No one else was hurt as I was alone driving alone).

A short story
Some time ago I’ve noticed that some people (they don’t live in the area) are keeping stolen cars overnight or over the weekend in empty garages in our flats building. I’ve checked the reg so I was sure. I didn’t wanted any stolen cars where I live so I’ve reported it to the police but they were unsuccessful to recover them the first time as the cars have been taken by the thieves literally 10min before police came (it took them a while to get here)
When they came back with different car and they left I’ve reported it again and went down to deflate the tyres. This time police successfully recovered the car. I was often working on my car outside so I’ve seen the thieves few times with different people and in different cars and they knew that I’ve seen them but wasn’t sure if they knew or suspected me.
Back to the day of the accident. I was celebrating at home because a month before I’ve passed my class 2 license and 2 weeks after that I’ve passed my motorcycle license and the day before the accident I’ve finally bought a motorcycle but I didn’t had any clothes and helmet so I’ve order it online and on the day of the accident I’ve picked it up from a locker and they were in my car. When I got back I started drinking and I remembered that I got some stuff in my car so I decided to go and grab it (it’s been parked off road next to the garages)
When I got in the car to grab the box I’ve heard a car coming and suddenly there’s 2 guys coming towards me which I remembered from driving these stolen cars. On of them had something in his hand and the other guy was shouting something. I’ve quickly closed my door and started the car and this guy hit my windscreen so hard that it cracked so I just drove off. And literally 2 or 3 minutes I’ve crashed.

While waiting for the ambulance I told the police that I was chased by someone and gave them the description of these guys.
Is it worth taking a solicitor? Is there any way a solicitor can help me? Should I just plea guilty or try not guilty and try to explain why I was driving drunk?
Never had any tickets, points nothing. Had my license for 7 years.
Like I said before I’ve just passed my lorry license and motorcycle license and I would never intentionally risk loosing it. I always take Uber when I had a drink.
I just didn’t know what to do. At that time and place it looked like my only option to drive away from them.
I know I won’t avoid the ban. I’ll just have to live with it but is there any way to avoid criminal conviction?
Thank you for reading and sorry for really long post. I’ve tried keeping is as short as possible, left some stuff but it’s still long.
 
Hello welcome to the forum
Sadly all DD convictions = criminal conviction & all that entails
Bloods can take a while but if you had that much to drink you can expect them to be positive - best case they loose them but chance of that is slim & don’t get hopes up
Your story could have a slight impact in mitigation re the sentencing but there are clear guidances the magistrates follow
Price is the best to advise
Don’t be conned into using a costly legal team who promise the earth
See this forum about this
One day at a time but it’s a long road ahead so take support from friends
 
I was already looking at these firms and calling them asking for advice but then I found out the prices and some of the reviews weren’t that good and I have no idea what to do.
Do I have to plead not guilty to have a chance of telling my story?
Or is it possible to plead guilty and still have a chance of telling why I drove after drinking?
 
You can plead guilty and then explain why you drove to ask for the court to be lenient on you (but the minimum is 12 months ban)
Or
You can plead not guilty and put forward the defence that you only drove because of the real threat of violence.
Here is an explanation of that defence:

“A circumstance may arise that is beyond a persons control and that necessitates driving whilst intoxicated. This is known as ‘duress of circumstance’ and in only an extreme case of duress would this defence be available. Examples of these are a threat of serious violence from another person against the accused or another individual or a genuine fear of death for the individual had they not driven the vehicle. If a person was to claim that they were under duress and this is used as their defence, it is up to the prosecution to prove this was untrue beyond any reasonable doubt. They will examine whether the threat was real or perceived, if the distance driven was appropriate for the escape of immediate danger and if a sober person would have responded to the incident in the same way.”

So the validity of the circumstances you put forward will be tested. Did you make a complaint to the police about the threats and the damage?
If so, did you tell the officers as soon as you were stopped? You say you told them you were being followed, but what you describe was far more than that if correct…. Being followed does not amount no a defence.
How far had you driven? The defence would only work if it was the minimum distance to be safe from the threat.
 
When the police arrived they’ve arrested me on suspicion of drunk driving and while waiting for the ambulance they asked what happen so I told the police I was chased (not followed) by two males and gave the brief description of them and the car they were driving. I don’t remember much from the scene as I got hit pretty hard with the airbag and I was really confused of what had happened. Don’t know how long we waited for the police and the ambulance. But before the chase I didn’t had any problem with walking down from the second floor or walking to my car to pick up the box. I remember all that.
The distance driven was no more than a mile using side roads as I know the area pretty well. (Checked on the maps to be precise)
 
MrLuk said:
When the police arrived they’ve arrested me on suspicion of drunk driving and while waiting for the ambulance they asked what happen so I told the police I was chased (not followed) by two males and gave the brief description of them and the car they were driving. I don’t remember much from the scene as I got hit pretty hard with the airbag and I was really confused of what had happened. Don’t know how long we waited for the police and the ambulance. But before the chase I didn’t had any problem with walking down from the second floor or walking to my car to pick up the box. I remember all that.
The distance driven was no more than a mile using side roads as I know the area pretty well. (Checked on the maps to be precise)
Click to expand...
Did you do a trawl of premises in the area to see if any of them had CCTV of the incident? If you can provide video evidence of of someone coming at you with a heavy spanner and hitting your windscreen, then that could be used in your favour.

You might however still be charged with Drunk in Charge of a Motor Vehicle as you had the keys on you at the time, and although you initially had no intention of driving, you were still controlling the car.

There are a few instances on this site of people living in Camper Vans that have had a drink and even settled down for the night in bed being woken up and asked to blow into a breathalyser and then charged with Being in Charge.
 
Hi,

Is there any CCTV camera footage showing you being attacked?
If you can acquire that footage I think that will help your defence.

Regards,




Stu
 
You did say that you told the police that you were chased (not followed, my bad) but in your narrative you only mentioned two men approaching your vehicle and breaking your windscreen. No mention of them setting off after you when you drove off.
You can expect every aspect of what happened to be challenged by the prosecution. They will ask why you did not drive off round the corner and pull up after 2-300 yards, then phone the police for help…..why was it necessary to drive a mile?
They will explore the route that you took and see what opportunity that there was for you to pull over and call the police.
They will look to see if, and when, you reported the threats of violence and the damage caused, getting a crime number. This is not the same as telling the police while waiting for an ambulance.
Agree with others about searching for CCTV footage, also do you have a dash cam yourself? It may not have recorded the windscreen strike if you hadn’t started up, but it would have recorded your swearing about it in the car as you drove off….!!
To run that defence you will need a solicitor, but you can put forward the circumstances yourself as mitigation.

The consequences of a drink drive conviction with a ban will mean that you will find it almost impossible to find employment with your class 2 licence for the 5 years until the conviction is spent.

Your details on what you drank, and the timescales for the drinking and the blood sample was taken are rather than vague. If you take the lowest amount you drank, and the longest period of time between drinking and the blood sample, it is conceivable that your sample might come back just under.
 
Regarding CCTV I’m not sure if there’s any. Where I live I don’t think people wants to be recorded as I’m pretty sure a lot is smoking/selling weed here as you can smell it everywhere. The company who manages the building said they going to put some but looks like they’re not in a rush.

I’m going to hate myself because I’ve ordered a mount for a dashcam which I had for a long time and it came 2/3 days before the accident and I didn’t had time in the week to install it and wanted to do it on the weekend.

Today or tomorrow I’ll go down the route I were driving and see if there’s any CCTV visible pointing at the street or any at all. I know that would help a lot.

Regarding why didn’t I stop after 200/300 yards. I could see them in my back mirror for about half way I drove but they weren’t like really close but if I could see them in my mirror before making a turn then they could see me.

I fully understand they consequences of my actions and I’m not looking to get away from them. There’s no coming back and I know that it will be impossible to get any HVG jobs for years and unfortunately I’ll have criminal conviction. I’m just happy that in the end no one except me got hurt. That’s the most important thing. Like someone said on the forum I'm preparing for the worst and anything less than that will be a some kind of relief.

Is there a big chance of judge requiring me to do a retest at the end of the ban? Is there any guidance for them or is it entirely up to them?

I might have shorten my story a bit too much but I wanted to keep it as short as possible. They only thing I’m worried about it using correct words as English is not my native language and I can understand almost everything but when it comes to using correct words it may be a problem and because of that they way I tell something someone may understand it in a bit different way. Like using followed and chased. I know these words are not the same but many times I’m not using the correct word that should be used because for me they are similar.
 
Ok, that is a fuller picture of events.
I am not accusing you of anything, I am just trying to show you what questions you will face in court if you plead not guilty and put forward that you feared significant violence which was why you drove the car.
I fear that CCTV along the route at best will just show you driving past, then 10 seconds or so, another car driving past…..

You are able to express yourself well on here (it was me that messed up with following and chasing) but if you feel that language is going to be an issue at court, you can get in touch with the court before you appear (giving as much notice as you can) and request that an interpreter be supplied. That service is free.
 
Mr Luk

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly - the most important thing in this scenario is that no one else was injured or harmed by the collision, and your own injuries are minor.

I've been reading you story and despite the violent circumstances in which you drove away from a potential altercation where you could have been seriously assaulted - the drink driving offence will still stand.

Drink driving is an 'absolute' offence - therefore any reasonable excuse for driving is completely irrelevant.

A few cases where drink drivers have still lost their licences in extreme circumstances include -

- Women fleeing domestic violence.

- A father-to-be driving his partner to hospital when she goes into labour due to no ambulances being available.

- A man driving to an address to stop someone commiting suicide.

- A woman moving her car away from the scene of a fire to stop it getting damaged.

These are extreme cases where everyone concerned lost their driving licences as they had been drinking prior to their actions.

What I would advise you (and this is merely my own advice and I'm not telling you to do this!) - consider a 'guilty plea' but ensure you put across strong reasons for your actions to the Magistrates bench.

Any sound Magistrates should reflect on the circumstances and consider this when passing sentence. If your bloods come back as 200 (or above) milligrammes per 100 millilitres, you will sadly fall into the High Risk Offender category which will mean taking a medical at the end of the ban.

Unfortunately, the length of the ban always goes off the alcohol content in your system, so again the circumstances of why you drove will have no bearing on how long you get banned.

The circumstances may help to prevent any additional sanctions such as heavy fines or community service (if you fall into the HRO category).

If you try and defend your actions with a 'not guilty' plea - it will just lead to a court trial where a prosecution barrister will simply scrutinise the whole incident and you will still get banned but be paying a huge fine afterwards.

Unfortunately, with the best will in the world - unless the altercation can be corroborated with say CCTV evidence or maybe something the police uncover, Magistrates will simply treat it with a pinch of salt.

Magistrates are very switch on people who have heard every excuse in the book. Believe me when I say, they do not suffer fools gladly and don't take kindly to people who try and spin them a tale of woe, when there isn't anything to back it up.

I am not accusing you of lying - but Magistrates listen to a lot of 'tosh' from people unlucky enough to stand in their dock. I would always start with an apology to the Magistrates bench and perhaps just offer a polite explaination for what happened on the night of the collision.

I do apologise if I come across as being blunt. I was convicted of drink driving in February 2019, so I'd like to think I've learned a hell of a lot in the last two years and my purpose here is to make your own experience in that court room as painless as possible.

Good luck on your journey. It is a very dark path to walk in the early weeks & months of being arrested for drink driving, but believe me - life will not always be this s**t for you. It does get better with time.

CJ
 
Thanks CJ for your reply. I'm thinking more about 'guilty plea' as I don't think pleading not guilty without any strong evidences and trying later to prove/explain why I did what I did. In the end I went behind the wheel drunk. I don't think it should come back as over 200.
I have no idea how I can shortly explain to the Magistrates bench why I did it.
It's been 4 weeks since they took my blood. The waiting is killing me. I would love to have it behind me but on the other hand I still want to enjoy riding my motorcycle as long as I can while the weather is not too bad.

Anyone know if there's a big chance of me having to do a retest at the end of the ban? Is there any guidance for them or is it entirely up to them to order a retest?
 
The only time the magistrates order a retest is if there has been a very bad accident, or for elderly or novice drivers where it is felt that their driving skills ne testing again. It is not going to be ordered for your case, I’m sure.
 
MrLuk said:
Thanks CJ for your reply. I'm thinking more about 'guilty plea' as I don't think pleading not guilty without any strong evidences and trying later to prove/explain why I did what I did. In the end I went behind the wheel drunk. I don't think it should come back as over 200.
I have no idea how I can shortly explain to the Magistrates bench why I did it.
It's been 4 weeks since they took my blood. The waiting is killing me. I would love to have it behind me but on the other hand I still want to enjoy riding my motorcycle as long as I can while the weather is not too bad.

Anyone know if there's a big chance of me having to do a retest at the end of the ban? Is there any guidance for them or is it entirely up to them to order a retest?
Click to expand...

Mr Luk

From what I understand of the boys & girls in blue they have a six month time limit to present the case at court.

Alot of police officers carrying a lot of caseloads so even though your bloods may take a few weeks to come back, the officer in the case may not prepare the file immediately which may mean a prolonged wait for yourself.

I am assuming if you were involved in a collision - you were taken to hospital (under arrest) - Custody Sergeant's don't like detaining people who have injuries! Given that the police have not witnessed your driving and the subsequent collision - were you interviewed in police custody after being discharged from hospital?

If the police left you at hospital after the bloods were taken, then the chances are the officer in the case would deal with you via summons which means there is no immediate rush to get you in court (as long as its done in the six months from the date of the drink driving offence).

Again, I'm only assuming given your circumstances - the police should have interviewed you under caution as they didn't witness you driving. Therefore, that would mean taken to police custody and then bailed pending your blood analysis.

If you are on police bail, the police technically have a few options to deal with you -

- Charge you when you return to the police station, where you will be allocated a court date.

- Re-bail you if the blood sample hasn't come back when you attend the police station.

- The police can release prisoners from custody 'under investigation' - whereby the officer in the case can summons you. Therefore, you never actually re-attend the police station.

Your best bet is contacting the officer who arrested you. They should have left you their contact details and of course your own blood sample (which defendants are given so they can analyse it themselves!!!!)

I hope my info is useful.

CJ
 
C J 1980

After the accident when the police arrived (it's been probably 20/30 min) they said I'm under arrest and called an ambulance because of the cut to my eyelid - it was bleeding pretty badly. The accident happened before 8pm and from what I remember they took my blood around midnight and straight after that the police officer said I'm no longer arrested and I'm free to go home which I did immediately as I had 100 missed calls from my girlfriend... They were asking me some questions at the scene but can't remember any of them except the part where I told them I was chased by someone and giving them a brief description of the persons and their car. I don't know why that particular part stayed in my head.

I can't remember exactly what he said but I also don't remember bringing home any container. All I had in my pockets was the card from the PC with my ref number, my phone and my keys. I made sure to take everything from the hosptial room as I didn't wanted to go back there.

To be honest if I had to compare when I was walking down from second floor and walking to my car before the accident to the moment when I got out of the car after being hit by the airbag then while walking to the car felt completly sober and after being hit by the airbag it felt like I drank a bottle of vodka. (Few months before on my friend birthday I drank more Guinness than I drank on the day of an accident and still I felt a lot better than after being hit with an airbag)
It must have been a really strong hit (yes I was wering my seatbelt, hate it when I see someone without one). Until today I feel numbness where I got hit and it's still swollen. I've never though that being hit with the airbag can be so painfull.
 
Mr Luk

Yes - it does make sense about the hospital procedure. Like I said - Police Custody Sergeant's are strict about detaining people who have been injured in their cells, so the police action at the hospital is sensible on their part.

Technically speaking, the officer who arrested you should have conducted some sort of interview under caution if the police have not witnessed the incident/collision. He/she might have simply recorded any significant comments you made in their note book or on their body cam if it was recording everything.

However, best practice is they should interview you. Unfortunately, interviewing drunk & injured people in busy A&E's is not professional and not ideal either - the police may decide to conduct a voluntary interview under caution at an agreed time/date, after they recieve your blood results back. Again, I would contact the police about this, and just ask the question.

As for the bloods - I give a breath sample when I was dealt with, but I am lead to believe if you provide two blood samples the police should allow you to keep a sample incase you decide to analyse your own sample to prove your innocence!!!!

The police do this for transparency, so they cannot be accused of tampering with your blood sample. Again, the samples taken should have been sealed up in your presence and signed for. One of them will become an 'exhibit' that is key to the prosecution case.

For evidential continuity - the exhibit blood sample should have a audit trail of who has handled it so there is no allegation that the sample has been compromised.

When evidence is compromised - prosecution cases become 'unsafe' - so that blood sample you gave will be treated like the holy grail by the police.

I would predict the police actions will hinge on the test results of your blood sample, but there is no harm in contacting them about whether they will be interviewing you and what timescales you will be looking at.

I hope what I have said makes sense.

CJ
 
Hello, I didn’t wanted to open a new thread so I ask here.

I was contacted this morning by an officer if I can attend an voluntary interview tomorrow morning. Does that means that they finally got the results from my blood sample taken on the 1st of July?
Should I ask for a duty solicitor to be present during the interview? Can I ask for one when I’ll confirm if I can attend or do I have to wait until I get there tomorrow morning?
Thank you
 
MrLuk said:
Hello, I didn’t wanted to open a new thread so I ask here.

I was contacted this morning by an officer if I can attend an voluntary interview tomorrow morning. Does that means that they finally got the results from my blood sample taken on the 1st of July?
Should I ask for a duty solicitor to be present during the interview? Can I ask for one when I’ll confirm if I can attend or do I have to wait until I get there tomorrow morning?
Thank you
Click to expand...
I am sure they have the results, and will want to ask you about driving the car.
You should ask for the duty solicitor to be with you. The way the system works is that the duty solicitor can only be asked to attend when the suspect is actually at the station. It seems silly, but that is the only way that they get paid through legal aid (so it is free for you)
You could indicate to the officer today that this is what you will be requesting. It may well delay things tomorrow by a couple of hours, so if you inform him then he can decide if that delay can be built in to his schedule of if he will have to put it off.
 
I’ve mentioned to the officer that I would like a duty solicitor to be present and he made sure there was one.

The solicitor told me that they want to charge me with driving while unfit through drink and I would be looking at 12-16 months ban but he also said that they don’t have enough evidences to put me behind the wheel so that’s why they invited me.

During the interview the officers told me the result of my roadside breathalyser test but he never mentioned anything about my blood results. From what I know they can’t use the roadside test in court or anywhere else? And why wouldn’t they told me my blood results? Was it on purpose? They still waiting for the results?
And now I have to wait again to see what they decide.
Is there any differences between driving while over the limit and driving while unfit through drink?
 
MrLuk said:
I’ve mentioned to the officer that I would like a duty solicitor to be present and he made sure there was one.

The solicitor told me that they want to charge me with driving while unfit through drink and I would be looking at 12-16 months ban but he also said that they don’t have enough evidences to put me behind the wheel so that’s why they invited me.

During the interview the officers told me the result of my roadside breathalyser test but he never mentioned anything about my blood results. From what I know they can’t use the roadside test in court or anywhere else? And why wouldn’t they told me my blood results? Was it on purpose? They still waiting for the results?
And now I have to wait again to see what they decide.
Is there any differences between driving while over the limit and driving while unfit through drink?
Click to expand...
Wait a minute. They want to charge you with driving while being unfit through drink but don't have enough evidence to put you behind the wheel.

So did they invite you in for an interview in the hope you would incriminate yourself? I have a feeling that's what they did. It is up to them to prove their case, not up to you to provide them with evidence. You have a right to say nothing during all of this.

Presumably, that's what the Duty Solicitor told you.

If they can't place you behind the wheel and they are not charging you with being in charge of a motor vehicle, why did they breathalyse and arrest you? Something doesn't add up here.
 
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