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Thread: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

  1. #1
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    My son fell foul of Admiral's terms and conditions relating to accidents whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

    Anyone else in the same position with Admiral or other companies.

    Section 5 of the Admiral policy contains the following :-

    "If an accident happens whilst you or any person entitled to drive under Section 5 of your current Certificate of Motor Insurance is convicted of an offence involving drink or drugs, or was driving under the influence of drink or drugs, no cover under the policy will be provided and instead, our liability will be restricted to meeting our obligations as required by the Road Traffic Act. In those circumstances, we reserve the right to recover from you or the driver, all sums paid (including all legal costs), whether in settlement or under a Judgment, of any claim arising from the accident."

    Firstly I suggest anyone avoids Admiral unless you are 100% certain that no drivers on the policy will never D&D

    By agreeing to these terms it appears you are accepting unlimited liability. If they succeed with their claim in court you could be financially wiped out.

    My son has no assets but they want him to explain how he is going to pay them back.

    I have not seen this in my new LV= policy or previous Esure policy.

    I doubt whether it is enforceable and suspect they are just fishing for people to top up their coffers.

    As an aside it has affected the cost of my new policy as the "accident/claim" is visible to my new insurer and costing me an extra £850.

    As the policy holder my son's misdemeanour's are affecting me directly.

    Admiral have not been able to explain if a claim has been settled against my policy, or if they are out of pocket through complying with the Road Traffic Act.


  2. #2
    YouTeeAitch is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Very interested to read this as I think I'm in the same situation.

    My whole affair involved me hitting a house whilst drunk back in May 2010. I was told not long after by Admiral that as I was convicted of DD, I'd be liable to pay the bill. At the time they said this was going to be between £20,000 and £100,000!!!!!

    That was May last year, and I've not heard a thing from them in months and months. No idea what's going on, but no chance am I going to chase them or anything!

    So I'm kind of living with this cloud hanging over me, but totally in the dark. Have they forgotten about it?!? Do I have a leg to stand on when I say I'm not paying?!

  3. #3
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Quote Originally Posted by YouTeeAitch View Post
    Very interested to read this as I think I'm in the same situation.

    My whole affair involved me hitting a house whilst drunk back in May 2010. I was told not long after by Admiral that as I was convicted of DD, I'd be liable to pay the bill. At the time they said this was going to be between £20,000 and £100,000!!!!!

    That was May last year, and I've not heard a thing from them in months and months. No idea what's going on, but no chance am I going to chase them or anything!

    So I'm kind of living with this cloud hanging over me, but totally in the dark. Have they forgotten about it?!? Do I have a leg to stand on when I say I'm not paying?!
    Surprised by this time that they haven't sent you a letter with the amount they want off you!

    However they might still be embroiled in a long winded dispute over the final figure.

    I can't yet see how they can enforce these terms and conditions which basically means you accept unlimited liability.

    Have you signed the indemnity form?

    My advice is don't contact them and string it out.

    They have given my son a figure and asked how is plans to pay.
    I have asked for ALL the details relating to the case and the stuff they have sent me is unacceptable. They cite the Data Protection Act for not supplying the names, addresses and medical reports of the claimants.
    So they want my son to pay out to some anonymous people?

    They have knocked 10% as a special offer and asked him to send his payslips in and explain his outgoings. Nice try but no chance!

    My son has no assets so if they want to pursue him it will be a pointless.
    I will see how far they take it. All the way to Court if necessary.

  4. #4
    YouTeeAitch is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Indeed very odd that they haven't got in touch yet, no doubt they will one day!

    So they're asking for payslips etc?! That's not good news....I own my house, so I assume that means they could in theory get me to sell my house to pay them!? Not keen on that!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Depressed Dad View Post
    Surprised by this time that they haven't sent you a letter with the amount they want off you!

    However they might still be embroiled in a long winded dispute over the final figure.

    I can't yet see how they can enforce these terms and conditions which basically means you accept unlimited liability.

    Have you signed the indemnity form?

    My advice is don't contact them and string it out.

    They have given my son a figure and asked how is plans to pay.
    I have asked for ALL the details relating to the case and the stuff they have sent me is unacceptable. They cite the Data Protection Act for not supplying the names, addresses and medical reports of the claimants.
    So they want my son to pay out to some anonymous people?

    They have knocked 10% as a special offer and asked him to send his payslips in and explain his outgoings. Nice try but no chance!

    My son has no assets so if they want to pursue him it will be a pointless.
    I will see how far they take it. All the way to Court if necessary.

  5. #5
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    I am interested to hear from anyone in a similar situation where the Admiral Group of insurers which includes Admiral, Bell, Diamond and Elephant are pursuing you for the repayment of third party costs.
    Specifically under their Drink and Drugs exclusion in their policy (section 5?)

    You may also see Admiral Group under the name of EUI limited.

    I am not a legal expert, just a concerned parent and a person who dislikes injustice.

    I suggest people read this http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2011/1657.html

    EUI lost the case and had to pay up for 200k of damage to a property that one of their policyholders did in a suicide attempt. EUI unsuccessfully tried to avoid their obligations under the Road Traffic Act. what did arise in this case was reference to Ruiz Bernaldez http://www.mibclaim.co.uk/resources/...e-c12994-1996/ Under Spanish national law the insurer can avoid the policy if the driver is intoxicated. The Spanish Court referred questions to the European Court where I believe (with my laymans lack of legal knowledge) the direction was that Bernaldez insurer had to pay the TP costs but they had the right to pursue Bernaldez for repayment. The European part of it relates to Directives that standardise the approach in every EU country.

    I believe this is the case that has made EUI (Admiral Group) think they can get away with their Drink and Drug Exclusion.

    I have yet to find a case that has gone to court in the UK where Admiral have succeeded. AFAIK under UK law if you have a valid certificate of insurance the insurer has to pay for third party damage and injury but under the RTA, Section 148 they cannot include terms that avoid the policy based on certain criteria (subsection 2) including the physical and mental state of the driver.

    As far as I have seen so far only the Admiral Group have this specific term and a quick check of other major insurers policy documents shows that no one else does it. I suspect because Admiral have a more aggressive business model and believe they can intimidate people into paying. I can only speculate that other insurers don't do it because it is not supported under UK Law.

    I may have got this partially or completely wrong so more than happy to be corrected. In fact I am seeking clarity from anyone about whether Admiral's Drink and Drugs terms are enforceable under UK law and whether a UK court will take the Bernaldez case into consideration when making a judgment.

    My advice is to call the FSA and complain about the unfair term in the contract - It is a non-negotiated contract that puts the consumer at a disadvantage - you are taking on unlimited liability. I think the highest motor insurance claim is 20m.

    Also consider complaining to the Financial Ombudsman Service http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...complaints.htm if you believe you have a valid complaint against your insurer.

    Please PM me. I am happy to share what I know and especially interested in any cases that have actually made it to court or are on the process of going to court.

  6. #6
    AndyCabs is offline Established Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Hi, I came across this article on the BBC News website, March 2012, concerning Zurich.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17489887

    The last paragraph is interesting -
    The Road Traffic Act states insurers still have to pay out for third party claims, even if an insurer tried to exclude you from cover on the grounds of that you were under the influence of drink or drugs.

  7. #7
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Thanks for this Andy. Much appreciated.

    It confirms my understanding that the insurer cannot avoid paying the TP costs.
    What the BBC article is not clear on is whether they (the insurer) think they can subsequently recover the costs through the courts.
    It doesn't mention that in the article so I assume they don't pursue the driver. I cannot find the Admiral exclusion in the policies of other insurers.

  8. #8
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    I have yet to find a case that has gone to court in the UK where Admiral have succeeded. AFAIK under UK law if you have a valid certificate of insurance the insurer has to pay for third party damage and injury but under the RTA, Section 148 they cannot include terms that avoid the policy based on certain criteria (subsection 2) including the physical and mental state of the driver.
    I have changed my mind on this and I think I got it wrong. Section 148 subsection (4) says they can recover costs under certain conditions in subsection (2). I don't now believe that being under the influence applies to physical and mental state. I believe this relates to a change in physical or mental condition since the certificate was issued - e.g. gone blind or lost a limb. Which brings me back to them using the Ruiz Bernaldez case and having no right under UK law to recover costs.

    Anyone know a legal expert on the RTA and associated EU directives, or got any views? I really want to confirm whether my thoughts on this are correct?

  9. #9
    Depressed Dad is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Best explanation I have found about RTA section 148 so far http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u...nglish&f=false

    Doesn't make good reading but still not giving up hope - pages 366 onwards.

  10. #10
    t-bone is offline Member
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    Default Re: Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

    Convicted Driver Insurance Quotes
    Hi Depressed Dad,

    I'm new to these forums. Is there a function to private message on the forums?! I can't seem to find the option. I am in a similar situation to your son and I am meeting a solicitor on Friday, I think it's best we clash heads and thrash out any ideas, legal loopholes that may exist. Let me know.

    Cheers

    T

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