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Thread: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

  1. #1
    Treacle is offline New Member
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    Default Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Hi, recently caught drink driving in Spain on holiday (stupid I know) I was arrested and the court have taken my card licence. 8 month ban and a fine...

    do the systems in Spain communicate with the UK? My job relies on me driving...I would like to know if the ban carries to the uk?

    any help appreciated...

    Thanks

  2. #2
    europhil is offline Member
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    You are only banned in Spain.
    I have looked into this at great depth. The UK only has an agreement with Ireland and even that only applies if an Irish driver gets a ban in the UK, Or a British driver gets a ban in Ireland, They are then banned in both countries. But if a British driver gets a ban in the UK, Then he is not banned in Ireland.
    Just apply for a duplicate licence from the DVLA.

  3. #3
    price1367 is online now TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Quote Originally Posted by europhil View Post
    You are only banned in Spain.
    I have looked into this at great depth. The UK only has an agreement with Ireland and even that only applies if an Irish driver gets a ban in the UK, Or a British driver gets a ban in Ireland, They are then banned in both countries. But if a British driver gets a ban in the UK, Then he is not banned in Ireland.
    Just apply for a duplicate licence from the DVLA.
    Europhil,
    for once I agree with you! But only in part.
    yes treacle is only banned in Spain, it does not apply elsewhere.
    Treacle,
    Europhil is NOT correct about Ireland where he says "just get a duplicate licence from DVLA." He is right when he says you are not disqualified in Ireland, but you would be driving without a valid driving licence. It does not make it a valid licence because you now have a duplicate...... of one that you have been disqualified from holding or obtaining. Have a look at another thread where this has been thrashed our between Europhil and myself, and in a previous name of his as limeyPhil. The first one is on page 1 / 2 of my threads in my profile, under "they couldn't get me for anything else." I have no intention of repeating all the FACTS I have used to discredit his attempted justification as to why he is still driving round Europe after a drink drive disqualification here legally, because he has a duplicate licence.

  4. #4
    europhil is offline Member
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Quote Originally Posted by price1367 View Post
    Europhil,
    for once I agree with you! But only in part.
    yes treacle is only banned in Spain, it does not apply elsewhere.
    Treacle,
    Europhil is NOT correct about Ireland where he says "just get a duplicate licence from DVLA." He is right when he says you are not disqualified in Ireland, but you would be driving without a valid driving licence. It does not make it a valid licence because you now have a duplicate...... of one that you have been disqualified from holding or obtaining. Have a look at another thread where this has been thrashed our between Europhil and myself, and in a previous name of his as limeyPhil. The first one is on page 1 / 2 of my threads in my profile, under "they couldn't get me for anything else." I have no intention of repeating all the FACTS I have used to discredit his attempted justification as to why he is still driving round Europe after a drink drive disqualification here legally, because he has a duplicate licence.
    "you have been disqualified from holding or obtaining"
    The courts in Spain, UK, Ireland or wherever do not have duristiction outside of there own borders.
    Therefore the above phrase means that you can not hold or obtain a licence in the country that you have been banned.

  5. #5
    price1367 is online now TTC Group Associate Director
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    Angry Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Quote Originally Posted by europhil View Post
    "you have been disqualified from holding or obtaining"
    The courts in Spain, UK, Ireland or wherever do not have duristiction outside of there own borders.
    Therefore the above phrase means that you can not hold or obtain a licence in the country that you have been banned.
    Oh dear, Europhil, why have you not learned from our last exchange? You are right that a ban in Spain is not a ban in the UK, nor does it mean that you do not hold a UK licence. Hence you can drive back in the UK, or anywhere else other than Spain, because you are driving with a valid UK licence. A Spanish ban does not make a UK licence invalid, it simply bans you from driving there.
    where you are wrong is that when you are banned in the UK, you lose your right to hold or obtain a licence, therefore when you drive abroad, as you do not hold a licence in that country, you are dependant on being a visitor, holding a licence which is valid in your own country that the other country recognises, and you do not.
    You are saying, "we'll ok, my one licence has been taken away, but I have a duplicate, so I will use that to make another country believe I am entitled to drive there." On that basis, you should be able to drive in the UK as well, because you have a licence in your possession......
    At the end of our previous thread, one poster summed it up beautifully. It is the same as you putting a million pound in your account, getting a statement showing it is there, then withdrawing it. Then you go Abroad, go to a bank, show them the statement and ask for your million pounds because your statement shows that you have it. You haven't, it has gone, like your licence has in the UK. You have proof of what did exist, but not proof of what does exist.
    another post said that I was not to worry, you were either trying to wind me up, or you were too thick to understand. I might not use those actual words myself, but I do wonder which one is correct..... It is one thing to drive illegally abroad, you make your own choice, but I strongly object to you advising other people to do the same.

  6. #6
    europhil is offline Member
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    As i have tried to explain. The courts accepted that i was entitled to drive abroad. They accepted my human rights argument when i stated that they can not take away my right to make a living. They agreed that i could keep my licence, But i was banned in the UK. If my licence expired whilst i was still subject to my ban, They would not be obliged to renew it.
    When someone in the UK is banned, But wishes to hire a car in Spain, DVLA will fax the hire company a letter of entitlement and he/she can legally drive there.

  7. #7
    price1367 is online now TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Quote Originally Posted by europhil View Post
    As i have tried to explain. The courts accepted that i was entitled to drive abroad. They accepted my human rights argument when i stated that they can not take away my right to make a living. They agreed that i could keep my licence, But i was banned in the UK. If my licence expired whilst i was still subject to my ban, They would not be obliged to renew it.
    When someone in the UK is banned, But wishes to hire a car in Spain, DVLA will fax the hire company a letter of entitlement and he/she can legally drive there.
    But what you have been saying, and repeating, is that all you have to do is to obtain a duplicate licence and everything will be fine and legal, which it won't.
    You said that you drive throughout Europe using a duplicate licence. Now you are talking about a letter of authority from DVLA, which is a different matter.
    You then say that you have human rights to earn a living abroad, DVLA cannot take away that right, but "they would not be obliged to renew it." Why not, on your argument, because surely that would be against your human rights. Why are you seeking a letter of authority from DVLA if your duplicate licence is a full legal authority to drive abroad? You can't have it both ways.
    As you had a solicitor represent you in court, could you post on here his letter at the conclusion of the case, which they always write (with your name etc removed) where he repeats the outcome, which confirms that you were told by the court that you COULD drive abroad. That is a major thing, so I am sure he would have put it in the letter to you.
    I have gone to the trouble of digging out a lot of paperwork on this topic and you have produced nothing but smokescreens, so now where is something in writing from you to back up what you say, after your last effort at quoting out of date European directives that you didn't understand.....

  8. #8
    europhil is offline Member
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    I havn't said that i have used a letter of entitlement. i simply stated a fact.
    I also stated that I made a human rights argument.

    My facts that i have stated are from my determination to get definitive answers to legal issues that can be interpreted in many ways.
    I have gathered my information from various solicitors that all had different answers, the DVLA, Two magistrates courts, The Dutch equivellent to the DVLA, DSA, Vosa, TTC, and a Traffic commisioner.

  9. #9
    price1367 is online now TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

    Quote Originally Posted by europhil View Post
    As i have tried to explain. The courts accepted that i was entitled to drive abroad. They accepted my human rights argument when i stated that they can not take away my right to make a living. They agreed that i could keep my licence, But i was banned in the UK. If my licence expired whilst i was still subject to my ban, They would not be obliged to renew it.
    When someone in the UK is banned, But wishes to hire a car in Spain, DVLA will fax the hire company a letter of entitlement and he/she can legally drive there.
    OK, I have tried to accept that I have explained this for any rational person to understand, that I have a life and I shouldn't let someone with The Readers Digest Guide to the Law (19998 edition, out of date...) annoy me. But when grossly misleading things are posted on this forum, that decent people might read and accept as truth, I feel obliged to take the effort to show how Europhil is wrong... AGAIN.

    The reality is that when someone wishes to hire a car in Spain - or many other countries- and they have LOST their licence then DVLA, for a fee, will fax through a certificate of entitlement to the hire company to confirm their entitlement to drive in this country and what groups it covers. This is via a form D737, which confirms your entitlement to drive in the UK, in other words that you are a UK licence holder until xxx date, for xxx groups of motor vehicles....... and you think they will send that when you have been disqualified and have NO entitlement to drive?

    Now, just supposing that they make a mess of it, and do send through a certificate of entitlement, it will show points and disqualifications recorded on your licence.
    What do Hire companies say about points and disqualifications? Lets have a look: (and these rules apply to rentals abroad as well as in the UK)

    Thifty:
    Driving Licences & history
    Anyone who will be driving the Thrifty vehicle must present a valid driving licence with their current address, in person, at the time of collection. No copies of licences will be accepted.

    IMPORTANT: On collection of vehicle, renter must produce: valid driving licence (both parts of UK licence) - we cannot accept an expired photocard
    Drivers must have held a full driving licence for at least 12 months. Licence endorsements up to 9 points are accepted. If the driver has been banned from driving for a DD, DR or UT offence, or has been disqualified for 12 months or more, we will only rent 5 years or more after the return of the licence.


    Note the underlined bit.

    www.carrentals.net says 2 things on this subject:


    I have endorsements on my driving license. Can I still hire a car?

    Rental providers are usually happy to accept a license with up to 5-6 points for speeding, parking fines or traffic violations. The codes of major endorsements disqualifying the driver are: BA, CD, CU, DD, DR, LC, MW. This however will depend on the car rental agent.

    and:

    If the missing part of your license is the paper part, please contact your rental provider to check that a Certificate of Entitlement from DVLA will suffice to pick up the car. Many rental providers provide a DVLA Check service at the rental desk (sometimes a service fee may be applicable for DVLA check).
    If the missing part of your license is the plastic part, the rental provider will most likely refuse to release the rental vehicle.

    AVIS:

    Hello Matt,
    Here are the minimum requirements for renting a car in Germany: minimum 1 year Full Clean Driving Licence and a Credit or Debit Card at the Driverís name (no Electron, Maestro or Switch cards).

    and for driving in the USA:


    sixt.co.uk/rental-services/Ö
    1) A full driving licence (UK customers must include the paper counterpart) for all named drivers, with details of all endorsements.If you have 6 points or below on your licence you can still hire from us. If you have above 6 points or have a DD, DR or BA endorsement that is within less than 5 years you are not able to hire from us. International driving permits must be accompanied by the national driving licence.

    Note that this also prevents the "I have been disqualified but I still have an International Driving Licence" scam. (similar to the "I am disqualified but have a duplicate driving licence" scam Europhil is promoting.

    So the chances of this urban myth about certificates of entitlement allowing a disqualified driver driving abroad becoming a reality are remote.

    To also deal with the first part of Europhil's post, he has stated in the past that British law, disqualifying him from driving in the UK, is not valid abroad. (which is true, just that instead of being disqualified he is driving without a licence) Yet in this post, he claims to have been given permission to drive abroad by the magistrates court who disqualified him in the UK. How can a magistrates court say anything about permission to drive in another country? They have no jurisdiction there, the law of that country would apply, and I repeat, hopefully for the last time, that to drive as a visitor in any of the countries that I have researched, you have to be the holder of a licence there, or to be the holder of a VALID licence in your own country that will allow you to drive for a specified period of time as a visitor, and because you are disqualified in your home country, the licence is NOT a VALID one.
    We all have human rights. We have the right of free passage throughout the EEC and to seek employment wherever we wish in member states.... but we have a duty to obey the law in the country we are in.
    Why did he need a duplicate licence if: "they agreed that I could keep my licence"....?
    I will await the posting of Europhils' extract from his solicitors letter where it confirms that the court said he was entitled to drive abroad....... but I will not be holding my breath.








  10. #10
    price1367 is online now TTC Group Associate Director
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    Angry Re: Drink driving in Spain on uk licence

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    Quote Originally Posted by europhil View Post
    I havn't said that i have used a letter of entitlement. i simply stated a fact.
    I also stated that I made a human rights argument.

    My facts that i have stated are from my determination to get definitive answers to legal issues that can be interpreted in many ways.
    I have gathered my information from various solicitors that all had different answers, the DVLA, Two magistrates courts, The Dutch equivellent to the DVLA, DSA, Vosa, TTC, and a Traffic commisioner.
    Europhil,

    So please publish these gems of information that you have researched. Throughout these postings of yours you have talked about facts, but failed to give any solid proof of them. I am extremely concerned that your posts are not furthering genuine debate, but could mislead casual visitors to this forum who might believe the unfounded statement of 'facts' you have put forward. All my quotes are verifiable, and they all say the same thing. You cannot drive abroad relying on a UK licence after you have been disqualified in the UK, you would have to pass a test in another country and then use that licence. That is a 'work round' and legal.I have not been talking about fiddles that let you break the law, (until you are found out) I am talking about the law, both here and abroad.
    I work for TTC and here is a quote from me, on behalf of them: YOU ARE WRONG. Do NOT quote TTC as handing out incorrect information because we are careful to only give out information that is factual and verifiable. Any query to TTC about the legal position on a drink drive matter comes to me, and I can assure anyone reading this post that I have NOT been asked any question about these matters by Europhil or Limeyphil.
    Are you just quoting website names, like the last time you gave a quote from an Irish website about an European directive that was 15 years out of date, and you did not even understand the quote you gave.
    If I wanted to know how to drive a lorry, I would defer to your much greater knowledge on the subject. When it comes to the law, you are dangerous.

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