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Zero tolerance

mack

New member
#1
I think zero tolerance towards drinking and driving should be imposed. If you have been drinking then do not drive - end of story. This would cut down on the amount of people getting convicted by thinking they are ok to have one or two and being slightly over the limit and if you have been out the night before on a heavy drinking session then do not drive the next day, simple.

Zero tolerance coupled with harsher sentences for first time offenders aimed at those who deliberatley flout the law and get behind the wheel knowing full well they are over the limit. Say a 3 year ban minimum for first time offenders, 7 year ban minimum and a madatory jail sentence for a second conviction and a lifetime ban and long prison sentence for a third conviction.
 

brenda

New member
#2
Having been convicted myself, I have to say that the ban I received (2 years) has been deterent enough for me not to do it ever again!

I agree that zero tolerance should be put in place.
 

lousul

New member
#3
Hi,

I think zero tolerance would cause more problems than it was worth. If anyone found with even a trace of alcohol in their system while driving was to be convicted and banned then a lot of people would be unessecarily banned and crime statistics would soar.

Scenario: Its a friday night, I have been out for a meal and drinks with friends. I havent been on a heavy all night bender until the small hours. I get home at 11.30pm. I wake up the next day at 8.00am. Im slightly hungover. By 11.00am I am feeling 100% again. I decide to go shopping at 1.00pm. I get in the car and head to town, some idiot pulls out in front of me and I am involved in a minor accident. Its ok, its not my fault, no one was hurt, no worries. The police arrive and breathalise me. Traces of alcohol are found, albeit small traces. I am arrested, locked up and released on bail. I go to court and get convicted as there is a zero tolerance limit. I am banned from driving and have a criminal conviction, I lose my job as a result. That would happen up and down the country if zero tolerance was introduced, I dont think that is the answer.

I think it should be advertised more to raise awareness. Shock tactics. Television adverts, magazine adverts, the more shocking the better! People should be educated about the dangers and consequences. Some sort of drinking and driving related information should be introduced into the driving/theory test. Public awareness of the dangers and consequences or drinking and driving should be raised dramatically. Those who have alcohol problems/addictions and it can be be proved through medical evidence that they have a drinking problem should have their driving licenses suspened until they can prove that alcohol is no longer a problem, im not sayin they WOULD drive but if they have an alcohol problem im sure the chance of them driving while drunk will increase substantially. This could also act as an added incentive to combat their problem or prevent it in the first place.

Public transport should be made available at pub/club closing times. Perhaps all nightclubs should be made to arrange a bus or two every night they open as part of their licensing agreement, Im not saying a free bus, they could charge a fee to cover COSTS ONLY, but taxi fares can be extortionate. These are some of the many things I think should be put in place.
 
#4
lousul said:
Hi,

I think zero tolerance would cause more problems than it was worth. If anyone found with even a trace of alcohol in their system while driving was to be convicted and banned then a lot of people would be unessecarily banned and crime statistics would soar.

Scenario: Its a friday night, I have been out for a meal and drinks with friends. I havent been on a heavy all night bender until the small hours. I get home at 11.30pm. I wake up the next day at 8.00am. Im slightly hungover. By 11.00am I am feeling 100% again. I decide to go shopping at 1.00pm. I get in the car and head to town, some idiot pulls out in front of me and I am involved in a minor accident. Its ok, its not my fault, no one was hurt, no worries. The police arrive and breathalise me. Traces of alcohol are found, albeit small traces. I am arrested, locked up and released on bail. I go to court and get convicted as there is a zero tolerance limit. I am banned from driving and have a criminal conviction, I lose my job as a result. That would happen up and down the country if zero tolerance was introduced, I dont think that is the answer.

I think it should be advertised more to raise awareness. Shock tactics. Television adverts, magazine adverts, the more shocking the better! People should be educated about the dangers and consequences. Some sort of drinking and driving related information should be introduced into the driving/theory test. Public awareness of the dangers and consequences or drinking and driving should be raised dramatically. Those who have alcohol problems/addictions and it can be be proved through medical evidence that they have a drinking problem should have their driving licenses suspened until they can prove that alcohol is no longer a problem, im not sayin they WOULD drive but if they have an alcohol problem im sure the chance of them driving while drunk will increase substantially. This could also act as an added incentive to combat their problem or prevent it in the first place.

Public transport should be made available at pub/club closing times. Perhaps all nightclubs should be made to arrange a bus or two every night they open as part of their licensing agreement, Im not saying a free bus, they could charge a fee to cover COSTS ONLY, but taxi fares can be extortionate. These are some of the many things I think should be put in place.
Hi and welcome to the forums!

Some very interesting suggestions you make there. Public awareness about the dangers and consequences should definitely be raised. I agree in that zero tolerance isnt the answer. The bus idea from nightclubs is a good idea and should be mandatory. I also agree with the idea of introducing some kind of information about the dangers of drinking and driving and alcohol limits, measures and units into the standard driving test.
 

mack

New member
#5
Personally, I think ignition interlocks should be standard on all vehicles. Random breath testing should be allowed, awareness of the dangers of drink driving should be advertised more (not just at christmas). I think a lot of people drink and drive because they think they can get away with it, and to be honest I think most of them do, until its too late. My grandad used to do it all the time, not paraletic drunk or anything but certainly over the limit to whereby his driving would have been impaired. Luckily he never injured himself, anyone else and luckily for him, he was never caught.
 
#6
Many people will be against zero tolerance and the government will find it difficult to implement such a law. There are far too many things to consider, like Human Rights for example, where you should allow people to decide for themselves and the alcohol limit is scientifically proven to be reasonable, ie, you could have consumed alcohol but not enough which would impair your driving.

The best thing to do is raise awareness, lower the alcohol limit and have tougher sentences for offenders...these will be more practical IMHO.
 
#7
My advise is simply to have more police 'policing' the roads.

I got banned for 12 months for a refusal to provide. It changed my life and gave me a much needed kick up the arse, even though there certainly was so much 'bad' stuff in my life at the time I think a saint could have struggled to stay straight...!

As a result of being banned, I will NEVER ever drive again after drinking alcohol. I would even be very cautious the next day. Zero tollerence would not work....

On my course to reduce my sentence, the bloke in change said he know's of people who are tea total, but eat fruit etc and their body naturally produces alcohol (we all do) and they would return a reading of 10 on the breathaliser. The legal limit being 35.

Infact, you don't have to be drinking beer to get banned. Too much sherry trifle, mouthwash (a lot) etc will suffice.

I know so many people who drink and drive it's a joke. These aren't even scum bags, but well paid 'professional's. A policeman friend used to call in a house where I lived and would have a can of lager whilst on duty..!! Just like early doors.. :)

There are so many people driving drunk, the only problem is catching them..

BUT, i would offer first time offenders more help. Maybe like in other countries allow them to carry on driving but only to and back from work and on an agreed route. This would avoid losing their job etc.

We all need help sometimes, and I don't know anyone who could not have been banned from driving. There is a lot of hypocrisy in our society.

Give people one chance to get it together, if it happens again then throw the book at them. Some people just take the piss.
 

donny

New member
#8
No zero tolerance would not work, for a start the courts would be full of never ending cases of office workers claiming co-workers had slipped one into their orange juice at lunch or they had an extra slice of tiramisu with their tea.

The problem is punishment, if you drink and drive you should lose your licence for a long time, you do it again you should lose your licence for good...you then go and drive without a licence you should face possible jail. Simple.
 
#9
Personally, I think ignition interlocks should be standard on all vehicles. Random breath testing should be allowed, awareness of the dangers of drink driving should be advertised more (not just at christmas). I think a lot of people drink and drive because they think they can get away with it, and to be honest I think most of them do, until its too late. My grandad used to do it all the time, not paraletic drunk or anything but certainly over the limit to whereby his driving would have been impaired. Luckily he never injured himself, anyone else and luckily for him, he was never caught.
Mack, it's a good moral standpoint, but ignition interlocks on ALL vehicles is not feesable. For one, they cannot be fitted on motorcycles. I will be convicted soon, and will have to wait at least two years before I can feel the freedom of riding on the road. Here in ontario, it is a one year driving prohibition, and then that is followed by a year of ignition interlock.

I feel my punishment is just, as a first time offender, and am not complaining at all about it. But if zero tolerance was introduced, along with ignition interlocks on all vehicles, wouldn't that be punishing the law abiding people for the mistakes of the ones who truly do abuse the system?

I've learned my lesson, but I would also say that life should eventually return to normal, people make mistakes. Under the current laws, people are being branded criminals if they are 0.081. It is fair and just in my opinion, do the crime, do the time, but EVERYONE deserves a second chance, otherwise people would continue to offend, social stigma permitting.

The 0.08 legal limit is there so that a defence in court can be formed, because under law, everyone is entitled to some sort of defence, otherwise our very human rights would be violated. I am not defending drink driving at all, I am simply stating that every single case heard in court is different.

Alcohol is a legal drug, this is why we have this debate raging right now.

Also, here in Ontario, there is a law in place stating zero tolerance for new drivers. Also, for a second offence on a full liscence, 30 days jail, and 3 year driving prohibition, and for a 3rd, 10 years to life driving ban, along with a 90 stint in jail. For a fourth? Lifetime ban.
However, after 5 years, a pardon can be granted as you can be deemed rehabilitated, thus reoffending a second time would count as a first for example.

Canada also has put in place a law that states that no one can enter Canada with a DUI conviction, period.

The laws here are the strictest in North America, but for a first time offender, the penalties are harsh enough to really make you think.

When Charged, I was in utter shock, (no buses here!), but now that I've had time to really think about all this, I think Canada have the right idea.

Interlocks are $1500 about 750 quid to fit into the starter system, and cost over $100 a month to maintain, so $2700 a year to operate.
If they came standard on vehicles, how would the average person be able to afford to drive? Bearing in mind that in south western Ontario, driving is just about the only transport available!

I certainly will never be drinking and driving, ever again, and if I have kids, I have the story to tell them, along with the paperwork of one of the hardest and scariest times of my life to show them.

But if they choose to do it, without my knowledge, how can I stop them?
I can't, the police will have to catch them, and give them the kick up the arse they need.

As far as I'm concerned, the police here are doing a fantastic job combatting drink driving, and I was one that was caught.
 
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#10
I think Zero tolerance is the concept of compelling persons in positions of authority, who might otherwise exercise their discretion in making subjective judgments regarding the severity of a given offense, to impose a pre-determined punishment regardless of individual culpability.
 
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