Vehicles that require no licence...

Convicted Driver Insurance

JGN

New Member
Ok folks, prob still licking my wounds and wallowing in self pity a little but 2 years nearly after a failure to provide (1st offence) I find myself effectively banned for life

(See my other post )

Yes I now feel my punishment is totally disproportionate and there were mitigating circumstances unfortunately I could not finance a defence for at the time ,
but hey,

there's no one to blame but the man in the mirror.


Other than my bike. - I've already lost 5 stone in 18 months, thanks Raleigh Mustang!!! , Is there anything else out there permitted

Sinclair c5
Lawnmower tractor?
Anything????

Thanks in advance

John
 
Your best bet would be something like an electric bike. At least you are at the right height and not on a lawnmower.

A while back I had one which I souped up with a little button to activate or remove the "road legal" limiter. For off road use of course.

On the off chance you get pulled by the police make sure the limiter is on before you stop.

I would say they are bloody fast being electric and not weighing much, much quicker than my car. So make sure you have uprated brakes and tyres for your off road exploits ;)

When I did get pulled the police don't really know the law on these things so they tend to let you go once you demonstrate your pushbike credentials, although your experience may vary.
 
Your best bet would be something like an electric bike. At least you are at the right height and not on a lawnmower.

A while back I had one which I souped up with a little button to activate or remove the "road legal" limiter. For off road use of course.

On the off chance you get pulled by the police make sure the limiter is on before you stop.

I would say they are bloody fast being electric and not weighing much, much quicker than my car. So make sure you have uprated brakes and tyres for your off road exploits ;)

When I did get pulled the police don't really know the law on these things so they tend to let you go once you demonstrate your pushbike credentials, although your experience may vary.
Thank you. Have u any links
 
Thank you. Have u any links
Depends if you want to buy one or DIY it. If you Google speed ebikes or similar you can find off the shelf ones for a price that go up to 28mph.

Otherwise you will find a lot, perhaps most, electric bikes are actually designed for 30mph, for instance, all the Bosch ones and I would guess almost all Chinese ones. They just fit a speed limiter here because otherwise they have to be registered with the DVLA.

There are plenty of videos online of how to remove the speed limiter. Again it is certainly if questionable legality so don't get caught. I mean, don't do it. ;)
 
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Your best bet would be something like an electric bike. At least you are at the right height and not on a lawnmower.

A while back I had one which I souped up with a little button to activate or remove the "road legal" limiter. For off road use of course.

On the off chance you get pulled by the police make sure the limiter is on before you stop.

I would say they are bloody fast being electric and not weighing much, much quicker than my car. So make sure you have uprated brakes and tyres for your off road exploits ;)

When I did get pulled the police don't really know the law on these things so they tend to let you go once you demonstrate your pushbike credentials, although your experience may vary.

Its not like you to encourage people to break the law tipsy
 
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Maybe post a new thread on electric bikes?

Quite a few people here have used them and it's always asked about. I think it's considered 'legal' to use from what I have read here
 
as far as I am aware an electric bike is the only motorised transport that a drink driver can ride on the road while banned
 
as far as I am aware an electric bike is the only motorised transport that a drink driver can ride on the road while banned

Correct. And they have to conform to the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle Regulations, so not really feasible to have a ‘DIY’ one. The regs specify the weight, power output and the max speed (15.5mph) that can be assisted, you can pedal faster after the motor cuts out though..... I have had several people arrive for a course on one and they always attract interest.
 
Well although the seemingly accepted view, pushed by cyclist groups us that if it goes more than 25km/h it needs to be licenced, personally I don't agree, although as far as I know it hasnt been tested in court which suggests no-one cares.

The 25km/h limit comes from the snappily named Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 January 2013 on the approval and market surveillance of two- or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles which was passed verbatim into UK law. No matter what the Daily Mail tells you, EU law is actually quite sensible in that it usually starts by saying a bunch of trivial stuff that doesn't apply, to stop some jobsworth doing you for a pointless reason.

In addition to the 25km/h rule

pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h

It also excludes

vehicles primarily intended for off-road use and designed to travel on unpaved surfaces

Now bearing in mind you're going to want to put some decent tyres on it would seem highly advisable that you design it for unpaved surfaces so that you can then intend to use it off road.

There has been some input, again from bike groups, that although they agree the exemption exists they think you would still need to have them individually approved as motorcycles under the single vehicle approval scheme.

Again I think this is a weak argument. The 2002 EU definition of a motorcycle includes the off road exemption and the whole point of EU law is that a exempt vehicle in Poland is an exempt vehicle here and you can ride a vehicle across the EU without needing pointless approvals from individual countries.

Although the UK can apply their own law in addition to UK law, I think it is pushing it to say that something the EU says isn't a motorcycle is, in DVLA world, a motorcycle and needs motorcycle approval.

Of course I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle. If you razz around on a 100mph off road pushbike or deliberately wind up cyclists you will attract unwanted attention, even if legally you are compliant with the law.

If you just scoot around town and quicken the pace on quiet country roads then probably less so.

Either way, your mileage may vary (or be zero).
 
found this on the .gov site

Electric bikes: licensing, tax and insurance
Contents
  1. Rules in England, Scotland and Wales
  2. Rules in Northern Ireland
Rules in England, Scotland and Wales
You can ride an electric bike in England, Scotland and Wales if you’re 14 or over, as long as it meets certain requirements.
These electric bikes are known as ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs). You do not need a licence to ride one and it does not need to be registered, taxed or insured.
There are different rules in Northern Ireland.
What counts as an EAPC
An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it.
It must show either:
  • the power output
  • the manufacturer of the motor
It must also show either:
  • the battery’s voltage
  • the maximum speed of the bike
Its electric motor:
  • must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  • should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).
Where you can ride
If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.
Other kinds of electric bike
Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
The bike must also be type approved if either:
  • it does not meet the EAPC rules
  • it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC)
This should have been done by the manufacturer or importer before you bought it. If it’s been type approved, it will have a plate showing its type approval number.
 
The problem for a convicted drink driver is that if the bike does not conform to the regulations then a licence is needed to ride one on a road or public place. That means the bike is a motor vehicle and the offence is riding whilst disqualified. That is much more likely to be prosecuted than riding an unregistered “over powered” electric bike.
 
cant see how plod would know - if they pulled you and it had a sticker saying it was a 250W motor - unless you were doing 30mph+ and not pedalling of course then you might have some explaining to do.
 
Price I don't agree it breaks regulations, I think it is generally accepted that if a bike is designed and intended for off road use then it is exempt in exactly the same way that ones limited to 15.5mph are in EU regulations, which have been wholesale copied into UK law.

It is clearly non-sensical to say that on a list of exempt vehicles one is exempt because it is convenient, but one isn't because it is inconvenient, although DVLA and sense don't always go hand in hand.

The argument is whether you would still need a single vehicle approval for the exempt bike. I would say not and the fact that there haven't been any notable cases suggests the CPS either have similar advice, or they aren't certain of a win and would rather drop a case and risk widespread publicity, or there just haven't been enough cases for one to get to a court of record.

You are correct that the police could decide to let a court decide which would be hassle even if you win which is why it would be advisable to be cautious and not attract attention in the first place.

For what it's worth I used mine to commute and, being young and slightly arrogant rode it like I'd stolen it (almost free fuel). I got stopped twice and both times was sent on my way when I showed it was electric. Understandably normal cops aren't going to know the insurance and outs of every obscure EU legislation. It is quite possible that I was lucky of course.
 
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Otherwise, bearing in mind an electric pushbike will never pass an SVA the law would basically be saying that you can use an EU exempt vehicle, just pay £165 and bring it along to our approval station.

Oh, by the way, it is impossible for you to get approval.

Which would seem an absurd situation. The point of approving motorcycles us they are big and heavy. But if you are fit you can easily get a pushbike over 30mph with cheap caliper brakes and skinny tyres, hence, you would assume, why EU legislators sensibly included such an additional exemption.
 
Folks,
Two things, first to conform to the regulations the electric bike has to display a plate from the manufacturers to say that it conforms to the regulations, so you would have to buy a proper electric bike and then modify it, keeping the plate on, you couldn’t start from scratch.
Secondly I am not saying about a prosecution for breaking minor rules about these bikes. What I am trying to get across is that it is an offence to drive a motor vehicle on a road or public place whilst disqualified, and electric bikes ARE motor vehicles UNLESS they conform to the regulations. If they conform to the regulations then they are NOT motor vehicles. If you are being powered at 30mph on a road on an electric bike the police may well not bother prosecuting someone for a breach of the regulations, but I am sure they would arrest a disqualified driver for being on one.......because they are riding a motor vehicle.
 
you are riding an illegal motorised vehicle on the public highway with no registration insurance or helmet

the regs are very clear

Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
The bike must also be type approved if either:
  • it does not meet the EAPC rules
  • it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC)
 
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Rufus, I would politely disagree.

The EU regulation 168/2013, which has been copied word for word into UK law, says that off road electric bikes do not need any approval or market surveillance, which is exactly the same exemption that electric bikes under 25km/h use, and exactly the same definition the EU used in 2002 to define motorcycles.

So for there to be a difference in riding an electric bike limited to 25km/h, and an off road electric bike, there must be an extra requirement in UK law which is also consistent with EU law. You can't just decide that an electric bike magically transforms into a motorcycle at 26km/h like a rather rubbish Back to the Future remake.

As I said I believe the "government advice" is based on them needing an SVA, but not accepting an SVA equivalent from other EU countries as would be acceptable for a petrol motorbike.

That's not to be rude, I just find it strange when people try to separate exemptions contained in one paragraph in one document of binding UK law. FWIW this is the complete paragraph of exemptions. Also, I really want to hack a Segway and drive it at speed on the road having read it.

2. This Regulation does not apply to the following vehicles:
(a)
vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6 km/h;


(b)
vehicles exclusively intended for use by the physically handicapped;


(c)
vehicles exclusively intended for pedestrian control;


(d)
vehicles exclusively intended for use in competition;


(e)
vehicles designed and constructed for use by the armed services, civil defence, fire services, forces responsible for maintaining public order and emergency medical services;


(f)
agricultural or forestry vehicles subject to Regulation (EU) No 167/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 5 February 2013 on the approval and market surveillance of agricultural and forestry vehicles (22), machines subject to Directive 97/68/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 16 December 1997 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to measures against the emission of gaseous and particulate pollutants from internal combustion engines to be installed in non-road mobile machinery (23) and Directive 2006/42/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 17 May 2006 on machinery (24) and motor vehicles subject to Directive 2007/46/EC;


(g)
vehicles primarily intended for off-road use and designed to travel on unpaved surfaces;


(h)
pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h;


(i)
self-balancing vehicles;


(j)
vehicles not equipped with at least one seating position;


(k)
vehicles equipped with any seating position of the driver or rider having an R-point height ≤ 540 mm in case of categories L1e, L3e and L4e or ≤ 400 mm in case of categories L2e, L5e, L6e and L7e.
 
TipsyNurse,
From my point of view, I am trying to show that it is illegal to ride an electric bike that does not conform to the EAPC Regs as a disqualified driver, I would make the point that even though the wording is the same for the off road bike you do not need a licence whatever the size of the battery or the speed, but for the on road one that does not conform you do need a licence.
You cannot just say that the regs are worded the same so you can ride a non conforming bike on the road because you can ride a non conforming bike off the road. The difference is that you cannot drive or ride any motor vehicle on a road whilst disqualified, and the regs say the PROVIDING the electric bike conforms to the Regs then it is not a motor vehicle. So if it doesn’t conform, it IS a motor vehicle.. so a licence is required.
 
Price, can you point to the EAPC regs?

As far as I can see the 25km/h definition everyone uses is lifted exactly from the EU regulations which give equal exemption to off road electric bikes.

Which again goes back to why people are happy to seize on one sentence but ignore the previous sentence.
 
Here you are, but at the moment I cannot see a fairly recent amendment. That simply upped the weight a bit and allowed 4 wheel electric bikes because some German ones didn’t conform to the old regs.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1168/made/data.xht?wrap=true

You will see that it makes reference to s193 Road Traffic Act 1972. This says the S of State can make regulations to make a mechanically propelled vehicle NOT to be classed as a motor vehicle. He has done this in the EAPC regs, so one that conforms is NOT a motor vehicle. One that does not conform IS a motor vehicle, hence the need for a driving licence....

193 certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles
(1)For the purposes of this Act—
(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any Other purpose, and
(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be specified by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this section and section 103 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1967,
shall be treated as not being a motor vehicle.
(2)In subsection (1) above " controlled by a pedestrian " means that the vehicle either—
(a)is constructed or adapted for use only under such control or,
(b)is constructed or adapted for use either under such control or under the control of a person carried on it but is not for the time being in use under, or proceeding under, the control of a person carried on it.
 
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