Home Insurance with Convictions

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Rosie

Well-known member
Hi there.I must say this forum can sometimes confuse you more, I have been informed by CAB that Drink Driving is a Motoring Offence and unless specifically asked for does not need to be declared. We all know we have committed a serious offence but I do think there is an element of demonization at the moment - maybe it is time of year.
Yes, there has been some confusing and incongruent statements, but all I can do is re-iterate my original statement that i had no problem whatsoever in renewing my home insurance with Paymentshield WITH a DR10 on record...
I can also recommend Towergate for anyone looking for car insurance after their ban is up.

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DonkeyKong

Well-known member
Mate, since I have have trusted a lot of advice from you... and given you seem to know what your’re talking about... and I have a lot of time.... would you be interested in a collaboration to try and bring this to a definitive? I want to start on this premise...
Prior to 2014, you needed to wait for 5 years to pass before your DD conviction was spent...
- There is a 2014 Act that repealed this,
- the ROA act took away the 5 year requirement and changed it to 2.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/299916/rehabilitation-of-offenders-guidance.pdf

There were lots of pissed off insurance companies who disagreed to the amdendmemt... but sucks-to-them.

Where is the bit after the 2014 act that says insurance companies can ignores the new laws?

If you look up Ministry of Justice, and Rehabolitation of Offenders,.. there is no mention of a 5 year spend. It’s much less tan this than 2014

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/299916/rehabilitation-of-offenders-guidance.pdf
 

price1367

TTC Group
When the original amendment to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 was published, it said that disqualifications were spent when the ban ran out. The notes went on to say that guidance would be issued prior to the implementation date.
You are right that there was a lot of pressure from the insurance industry, and 2 weeks before the implementation date the Secretary of State issued a Statutory Instrument (a piece of legislation that does not have to go through Parliament because it is only a minor amendment to an already agreed piece of legislation) to say that whilst disqualifications were spent at the end for criminal matters, this did NOT apply to motoring offences (for this purpose, including drink driving) so the Rehabilitation period remained at 5 years.
The link is shown below, It is seductively named: The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (Commencement No. 9, Saving Provision and Specification of Commencement Date) Order 2014

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/423/made

So 2 weeks before the amendment was made to the ROA 1974, the issue was covered in legislation. The guidance that you quoted was published prior to this SI being issued.
The end result is that if you use your car for shoplifting and you are disqualified, it is spent at the end of the ban. If you are disqualified for motoring offences, it is not spent for 5 years.
Simple when you know people who can manipulate the law to cover commercial need!
 

techra

Member
Yes, there has been some confusing and incongruent statements, but all I can do is re-iterate my original statement that i had no problem whatsoever in renewing my home insurance with Paymentshield WITH a DR10 on record...
I can also recommend Towergate for anyone looking for car insurance after their ban is up.
Thanks Rosie, I was just trying to stop people from really panic, at the beginning it seems like the world -has fallen in but it does get better. In my case I keep thinking that no-one was hurt and I don't even look at alcohol now, there is my saving.
 

Idiot1

Member
So then, I succsessfully canciled my insureance and took out a new policy with Direct Line who don’t class DD as anything other than a motoring conviction. I feel like I got out lucky! A canciled policy put my premiums up more than driving conviction when checking on comparison websites! My advice, say nothing, cancile , Renew.
 
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TipsyNurse

Well-known member
@DonkeyKong @price1367 is quite right that a fudge was made to allow insurance companies with this little paragraph.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/423/article/3/made

Saving provision in relation to road traffic endorsements
3. The provisions brought into force by virtue of article 2 except section 139(5)(b) of the 2012 Act (which omits section 6(6) of the 1974 Act) are of no effect in relation to a road traffic endorsement
Basically what they have said is that driving licence endorsements are treated separately and always need to be declared for five years. So even though other elements of the offence may be spent you still need to declare it because the spent time limit is the longest rather than shortest if there are multiple times to declare.

If there are no points for the offence than the time limits you refer to would apply, and you can stop declaring it when the LASPO 2012 act says it is spent. The fudge only applies if your driving licence is endorsed.
 

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
Simple when you know people who can manipulate the law to cover commercial need!
Thanks for the clarification. Do you think this might change? Or is there anything ongoing that is trying to change it? I can deal with the huge insurance premium increase in car insurance in just over a years time - it’s only money, and I get my own car back for driving around the U.K. But not being able to hire a car for another 3 years after that is going to lose me my job, and pretty much prevent me from getting another one in the same industry I’ve been employed in for 3 decades.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
It is enacted legislation so for it to change parliament would have to decide to amend or repeal it. You could contact your MP but it is a long shot.

Even if it was repealed you still have the issue that the law only covers having to declare it. In the case of car hire you usually need to show your driving licence (although now it is electronic I don't think I have been asked). They can therefore still - and as far as I know almost all UK companies do - refuse to hire to you for eleven years with a DD endorsement on your licence.

They would cover themselves by the fact their blanket insurance doesn't cover DD convictions, in the same way they exclude drivers by age even though that would otherwise be illegal.

Without knowing your job you would likely need to make alternative arrangements or find a new one.
 

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
Well, the job really isn’t relevant. In 15 months time I will have my llicence back, and a car, and can drive anywhere in the U.K. But like many people I have to work/drive abroad. So, I won’t need to hire a car in the UK, but I will have to anywhere in Europe. So, looking at loads of car hire sites, they mostly state that you can’t hire until 5 years after conviction. The 11 years is how long it is on your licence, but is spent after 5 and doesn’t need to be disclosed. I know we are having a separate discussion about whether the five should really be two, but anyway, worst case 5). I’ve logged on to the Gov site to view my “shared licence” that some hire car companies use. That system will show my 5 years disclosure. It guarantees it won’t show anything beyond that. So, in 4 years time, I will say I have no unspent convictions, and can generate a shared-license code which will confirm such because it won’t include the spent Conviction. So, the 11 isn’t relevant. An insurance company accessing data that is spent is illegal.

But, just musing on this, having hired cars all over Europe and the US, I don’t remember any of them asking for permission to access my driving record.
 
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TipsyNurse

Well-known member
Where does it say it will only show convictions for five years?

AFAIK the online service mirrors your paper counterpart, e.g. DD offences show for eleven years.
 

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
Where does it say it will only show convictions for five years?

AFAIK the online service mirrors your paper counterpart, e.g. DD offences show for eleven years.
You’re wrong. This is the first time ive been able to say this, as you are normally right. But you are absolutely wrong on this, I’m tired now. The offence is on your licence for 11 years. Correct. in case you do it again it will be taken into account when caught a second time. But is is only DISCLOSABLE for 5 years. See the Reohabilitation Of Offenders Act. Price will jump,here in a minute.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
Hmm, having had a read I think you are quite right, if you view your licence you can see DD convuctions, but the check code only shows convictions for five years.

However, looking at the Avis website they say they will not hire cars to anyone who has "been disqualified (or anything similar) in the last 10 years". So I think at least some car hire companies are seeking to get around it by asking simply for disqualifications rather than the conviction itself.

I think Avis are certainly skating on thin ice about whether that question breached the ROA but equally one would imagine if you don't include disqualifications the insurance Avis arranges won't cover you, and therefore you would still be committing an offence by driving the car. Insurance is a strict liability offence, except in a work vehicle you are responsible for making sure valid insurance is in place.

I guess like everything it is important to choose a company with sensible conditions.
 

Hobgoblin

Active member
For what it's worth, I've never had any issue with insurance following a DR10 in 1994.

In 2004 I had to claim on my car insurance when someone went into the back of me and they paid out fully (Tesco).

In 1998 I had to claim on home insurance (never disclosed as this was before the internet and no one asked - never occurred to me it might be an issue), and they paid out (just accidental damage to a video recorder)!

Regarding car hire - I hired cars and vans between 2004 and 2007, and no one has ever tried to stop me or considered it an issue.

I remember in the 1990s they used to say you couldn't hire a car for 11 years following a DD conviction, but this may well have changed since then.
 

Rosie

Well-known member
Regarding car hire - I hired cars and vans between 2004 and 2007, and no one has ever tried to stop me or considered it an issue.

I remember in the 1990s they used to say you couldn't hire a car for 11 years following a DD conviction, but this may well have changed since then.
Are there any companies who let you hire cars less than 11 years after a ban?
My ban of 40 months is done in April 2019, no money to buy a car, and im used to getting bus now after so long but would like to hire a car for the odd weekend so i can have a drive for a day out as been cooped up for nearly four years and wouldnt mind a change of scenery for a day :)
 
Home Insurance with Convictions

Hobgoblin

Active member
Are there any companies who let you hire cars less than 11 years after a ban?
My ban of 40 months is done in April 2019, no money to buy a car, and im used to getting bus now after so long but would like to hire a car for the odd weekend so i can have a drive for a day out as been cooped up for nearly four years and wouldnt mind a change of scenery for a day :)
I believe there are some, but it seems to be at least 5 years after.

https://indigocarhire.co.uk/faq/driving-convictions/
 
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