Home Insurance with Convictions

Home insurance

Milton

Well-known member
Quote from Sarah Pennells from Savvywoman.

"Some household insurers want to know about motoring offences (particularly if it involves dangerous or drunk driving) but most say they don’t need to know about minor offences such as convictions for speeding convictions."

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DonkeyKong

Well-known member
I’m guessing that if an insurance company actually stated that if you had once been asleep in a vehicle whilst over the prescribed limit, that your house is no longer insured.. they probably wouldn’t get much business, as it simply points to ... “we will find absolutely any way possible to invalidate your claiml
 

Milton

Well-known member
Hi DonkeyKong,
Yes I agree with you however, it's worse than that.
If your drink driving conviction is over 31 years old and deleted from the Police National Computer
it still causes problems with house insurance and some job applications.
The Police National Database or PND will still reveal all convictions dating back to 1963 irrespective of them
being deleted from the PNC.
Therefore all that stuff regarding wiping old criminal records and "stepping down" is just a load of
Government tosh.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
The police will only disclose spent convictions - e.g. more than five years old - in an enhanced DBS check which only applies to a limited number of professions or circumstances, e.g. nursing, working in a church, etc.

Otherwise after five years not only is it illegal to disclose the conviction, it is illegal to ask for it or treat someone differently because of it except if they are subject to an enhanced check. So it will definitely not affect insurance beyond five years.

The stuff about wiping criminal records was about not retaining fingerprints etc. Drink driving offences will (I think, @price1367 may be able to confirm) always be retained because more serious offences, e.g. death by DD are on the list of convictions that must always be disclosed. In those circumstances previous DDs would be relevant for disclosure.

In my experience they are disclosed on enhanced checks whether they are relevant or not, but that is a separate issue.

However, unless you need an enhanced check then after five years the slate is wiped clean for all intents and purposes. Insurers cannot and as far as I am aware do not ask for spent offences. The fact the conviction exists on an absolutely huge database is pretty irrelevant.
 
Home Insurance with Convictions

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
^^^ what TN said. I can see why there is so much confusion though Milton. There is so much misinformation out there. Look at this absolute nonsense from Rhinocarhire, on their website today...

  • It is not possible to hire a car in the UK with a drink driving conviction unless it was over 11 years ago.
ROA says different! In 4.5 years time, I won't be telling my car hire company about a spent DR10!
 

Milton

Well-known member
The police will only disclose spent convictions - e.g. more than five years old - in an enhanced DBS check which only applies to a limited number of professions or circumstances, e.g. nursing, working in a church, etc.

Otherwise after five years not only is it illegal to disclose the conviction, it is illegal to ask for it or treat someone differently because of it except if they are subject to an enhanced check. So it will definitely not affect insurance beyond five years.

The stuff about wiping criminal records was about not retaining fingerprints etc. Drink driving offences will (I think, @price1367 may be able to confirm) always be retained because more serious offences, e.g. death by DD are on the list of convictions that must always be disclosed. In those circumstances previous DDs would be relevant for disclosure.

In my experience they are disclosed on enhanced checks whether they are relevant or not, but that is a separate issue.

However, unless you need an enhanced check then after five years the slate is wiped clean for all intents and purposes. Insurers cannot and as far as I am aware do not ask for spent offences. The fact the conviction exists on an absolutely huge database is pretty irrelevant.
Hi TipsyNurse and thank you for your reply.
Today I contacted NACRO and explained the situation.
They said if my old conviction isn't on the PNC then it's been completely deleted and won't
show on an enhanced disclosure.
They also said I can apply for employment which is exempt from the ROA without disclosing anything
as I am now completely clear of any criminal record.
I must be one of the lucky people who had my PNC criminal record deleted before 2006 from the "weeding" process.

My PNC SAR said "No Trace" and stated that I have no criminal convictions.
Sadly I have been refused employment and house insurance in recent years for disclosing a conviction that wasn't
on the PNC.
Maybe disclosing a conviction that's deleted from the PNC makes employers and insurance companies think you are a liar. Now if that's the case then the criminal record system is a total mess.

Perhaps the Police should be polite and inform you when they delete a conviction from the PNC to prevent disclosure
of convictions that don't exist.
 

Milton

Well-known member
^^^ what TN said. I can see why there is so much confusion though Milton. There is so much misinformation out there. Look at this absolute nonsense from Rhinocarhire, on their website today...

  • It is not possible to hire a car in the UK with a drink driving conviction unless it was over 11 years ago.
ROA says different! In 4.5 years time, I won't be telling my car hire company about a spent DR10!
Hi DonkeyKong,

You are correct.
When I had a DR10 I had to wait 5 years before I could hire a vehicle.
After the 5 year period I hired several cars and vans.
The hire companies weren't concerned about my DR10 as long as it was at least 5 years old.
Hoswever, I did have to show my licence for them to check the date of the DR10.
 

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
Mate, they didn’t have to be concerned as you didn’t have to tell them about it.
Have you got an un-spent Conviction in the last 5 years?. No. And that’s the end of that.
They don’t need to check your licence to see when your DR 10 was. The DR10 was gone. There is no need to check for a conviction that you have already stated you don’t have. ROA says so.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
Hi TipsyNurse and thank you for your reply.
Today I contacted NACRO and explained the situation.
They said if my old conviction isn't on the PNC then it's been completely deleted and won't
show on an enhanced disclosure.
They also said I can apply for employment which is exempt from the ROA without disclosing anything
as I am now completely clear of any criminal record.
I must be one of the lucky people who had my PNC criminal record deleted before 2006 from the "weeding" process.

My PNC SAR said "No Trace" and stated that I have no criminal convictions.
Sadly I have been refused employment and house insurance in recent years for disclosing a conviction that wasn't
on the PNC.
Maybe disclosing a conviction that's deleted from the PNC makes employers and insurance companies think you are a liar. Now if that's the case then the criminal record system is a total mess.

Perhaps the Police should be polite and inform you when they delete a conviction from the PNC to prevent disclosure
of convictions that don't exist.
I think the NARCO advice is poor.

The enhanced check does not just search the PNC, they search a database called PLX. This is the Police Local Cross Referencing database and essentially is all the information held by local police forces. This is much more extensive than the PNC, in fact about 30% of applications trigger some information, although not all of it is considered relevant enough to go on the certificate.

To be certain you would need to also do a GDPR request to the force that prosecuted you, asking if they contribute any data to the PLX.

The issue with the NARCO advice is that if you declare now, the employer may well feel it is irrelevant if it doesn't involve abuse. You are then protected unless your job changes to the extent that the conviction becomes relevant.

If not then you may be playing with fire.

On the plus side I hope you got the name of the adviser at NARCO, you would have an excellent case against them if they are advising you to lie on a job application for a profession protected from the ROA act :oops:
 
Home Insurance with Convictions

Milton

Well-known member
I think the NARCO advice is poor.

The enhanced check does not just search the PNC, they search a database called PLX. This is the Police Local Cross Referencing database and essentially is all the information held by local police forces. This is much more extensive than the PNC, in fact about 30% of applications trigger some information, although not all of it is considered relevant enough to go on the certificate.

To be certain you would need to also do a GDPR request to the force that prosecuted you, asking if they contribute any data to the PLX.

The issue with the NARCO advice is that if you declare now, the employer may well feel it is irrelevant if it doesn't involve abuse. You are then protected unless your job changes to the extent that the conviction becomes relevant.

If not then you may be playing with fire.

On the plus side I hope you got the name of the adviser at NARCO, you would have an excellent case against them if they are advising you to lie on a job application for a profession protected from the ROA act :oops:
According to Unlock, the PLX local Police information data base
does not include information held on the Police National Computer, including:

Cautions
Reprimands
Final warnings
Convictions

I have never had any cautions, reprimands or final warnings, only one conviction for drink driving.
I am therefore conclude that my drink driving conviction being deleted from the PNC means I have no
criminal record.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
According to Unlock, the PLX local Police information data base
does not include information held on the Police National Computer, including:

Cautions
Reprimands
Final warnings
Convictions

I have never had any cautions, reprimands or final warnings, only one conviction for drink driving.
I am therefore conclude that my drink driving conviction being deleted from the PNC means I have no
criminal record.
I think, personally, you are misunderstanding the purpose of PLX.

It was put in place after the Southam murders specifically to report accusations even if they didn't result in an arrest.

So you are relying on either the accusation not being on PLX, or if it is them either not matching it up with anything, or not deeming it relevant. Personally I wouldn't take the risk when an employer is likely to deem the conviction irrelevant anyway. At the very least I would do a GDPR request on the force that dealt with it to see what they have on file for you.

However if you are confident that they won't have any record then try it, worst case you will have to apply for a different job.
 

Rosie

Well-known member
Just wanted to add to this thread RE home insurance, that Ive recently renewed mine and when i asked if I was still covered even though i have a DR10, they said that it was no problem and quote "that comes under motoring offences and in no way affects your home insurance".
The company was paymentshield
 

Idiot1

Member
Just wanted to add to this thread RE home insurance, that Ive recently renewed mine and when i asked if I was still covered even though i have a DR10, they said that it was no problem and quote "that comes under motoring offences and in no way affects your home insurance".
The company was paymentshield
After reading this I rang payment shield who I’m also with and they informed me that my insurance would be canciled once convicted, I’m due in court on the 18th. And was told I would have to ring them and inform them.

As it happens my home insurance is finished on the 19th I now don’t know what to do because having a policy canciled also make it hard to get insurance for LIFE I wish I didn’t bother trying to be honest.

Do I just hope they forget can I canciled it with instant effect?
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
Unless you are desperate to speak to them I would let the policy lapse. Obviously check your policy documents but I'm sure you don't need to tell them within 24hrs, and after the policy lapses then they have no interest in it anyway.
 
Home Insurance with Convictions

DonkeyKong

Well-known member
If it's of any help... I just renewed my Motorhome insurance. They asked if anybody in the household had a criminal conviction - I said Yes, Me, a DR10. The response was, "that is a motoring conviction and doesn't matter"
 

Idiot1

Member
more to this! After thing about it all night if they are not going to cancile my policy untill I have been convicted can I ring them and cancile it first? I can then take out home Insurance with the provider that happily coveres DD’s

I have found you are charged more for having insurance canciled than you are having a DR10 on your record
 

Tebbsy

Member
I was concerned about this issue. My Home insurance was up for renewal but the company had changed hands. The renewal policy stated that I had to inform if anything had changed that could affect the policy so I called the new company as a "new customer" I told them I had a DD. They said in their rules DD was a motoring conviction therefore I did not need to declare it.
 

techra

Member
Hi there.I must say this forum can sometimes confuse you more, I have been informed by CAB that Drink Driving is a Motoring Offence and unless specifically asked for does not need to be declared. We all know we have committed a serious offence but I do think there is an element of demonization at the moment - maybe it is time of year.
 

TipsyNurse

Well-known member
It's really simple.

Drink driving is a criminal offence.
Drink driving is a motoring offence.

Many insurers specifically exclude motoring offences when asking for details of convictions - after all almost everyone has a speeding ticket which is a criminal offence but we don't regard them as criminals.

However, if they ask for convictions without specifically excluding motoring offences and you have a DD conviction within the last five years you must declare it - or, as this thread shows, go to the many insurers excluding car insurance who will exclude motoring convictions.

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