Guilty or not guilty? Best advice outcome please.

[London89]

Minority voice here but if your legal aid lawyer believes you have a defence then go for it. A criminal record is a criminal record and some don't deserve it. Reutation and livelihood are worth defending. I cannot fathom the endless 'take your punishment' shaming that goes on here. Police do get it wrong. Often. They are not infallible gods.

Thank you

 

[London89]

Plead guilty take your punishment get on with your life obviously your health conditions didn't stop you drinking or getting into your car or you wouldn't have a failing to provide

It’s a very limited view that you are exhibiting. Life is not black and white. Iife has a lot of grey areas hence the law considers mitigating circumstances and we all get our day in court. I bet you don’t understand mental health and it’s effects on decision making. At times with mental health we have long periods of deep depression which affects our decision making. We have sleepless nights so consider decision making when l would have no sleep for days and viewing everything negatively.

Three times in the past l tried taking my life and medication and therapy helped. My conditions fluctuate minute by minute. Unfortunately I have a bad combination of mental and physical health issues. Mental health, physical health, chronic fatigue, sleepless nights etc affect cognitive functioning which then affects decision making

 

[Guygibson]

It’s a very limited view that you are exhibiting. Life is not black and white. Iife has a lot of grey areas hence the law considers mitigating circumstances and we all get our day in court. I bet you don’t understand mental health and it’s effects on decision making. At times with mental health we have long periods of deep depression which affects our decision making. We have sleepless nights so consider decision making when l would have no sleep for days and viewing everything negatively.

Three times in the past l tried taking my life and medication and therapy helped. My conditions fluctuate minute by minute. Unfortunately I have a bad combination of mental and physical health issues. Mental health, physical health, chronic fatigue, sleepless nights etc affect cognitive functioning which then affects decision making

I would say I have quite abit of experience in the mental health world having worked in the sector since 2008 and as for life being black and white you obviously haven't delt with the dvla before like I said before plead guilty take your punishment and get on with your life no point in prolonging the pain

 

[London89]

It’s a very limited view that you are exhibiting. Life is not black and white. Iife has a lot of grey areas hence the law considers mitigating circumstances and we all get our day in court. I bet you don’t understand mental health and it’s effects on decision making. At times with mental health we have long periods of deep depression which affects our decision making. We have sleepless nights so consider decision making when l would have no sleep for days and viewing everything negatively.

Three times in the past l tried taking my life and medication and therapy helped. My conditions fluctuate minute by minute. Unfortunately I have a bad combination of mental and physical health issues. Mental health, physical health, chronic fatigue, sleepless nights etc affect cognitive functioning which then affects decision making

I would say I have quite abit of experience in the mental health world having worked in the sector since 2008 and as for life being black and white you obviously haven't delt with the dvla before like I said before plead guilty take your punishment and get on with your life no point in prolonging the pain

ok

 

[topchippyles]

Minority voice here but if your legal aid lawyer believes you have a defence then go for it. A criminal record is a criminal record and some don't deserve it. Reutation and livelihood are worth defending. I cannot fathom the endless 'take your punishment' shaming that s on here. Police do get it wrong. Often. They are not infallible gods.

this can cause issues beyond drink driving getting his license back.

 

[London89]

Good morning. Anxiety has kicked in again. As I will be pleading guilty, would l be asked to speak in court? Is the decision for sentencing done straight away or l will be asked to leave the room then called back in again.

 

[Sundog]

Good morning. Anxiety has kicked in again. As I will be pleading guilty, would l be asked to speak in court? Is the decision for sentencing done straight away or l will be asked to leave the room then called back in again.

They will hear your plea first. During this bit you’ll just have to confirm your details and then all you have to say after is guilty or not guilty.

If you plead guilty, then sentencing will most likely be later that day (or possibly on another day shortly after, depending on the volume of cases in court at that time). So you’ll then leave the room and wait for the sentencing part.

However it’s during this wait that you’ll most likely speak to the probation officer, who is if you like the ‘neutral’ element between your counsel (i.e. your lawyer should you instruct one, or hopefully the duty solicitor if you don’t, who will be just as qualified to represent you) and the magistrate, and whom you will get to explain all of the many mitigating factors you describe above to.

You want the probation officer onside. These guys have the power to sway the sentencing from light to heavy. Your interview with the PO is your chance to really explain your illnesses, decision making on the day etc., and why it was so out of character for you. You should also provide to them copies of any character references for the magistrate (do you have any of these, if not you really should get some sorted, they do help believe me) and explain any constructive measures you might have undertaken since being charged (i.e. stopped drinking, attended any programmes, reviewed medication etc.). The PO I saw was quite friendly actually, which helped. I was going through a rotten period around the time of my conviction and I was glad for the opportunity to explain what had led to me making such a bad decision.

Then when you’re called back in for sentencing, the incident will be discussed in more detail. It’s entirely up to you whether or not you wish to speak during this part. I chose to because I was asked a few questions by the magistrate directly. But you aren’t compelled to, and your counsel and/or the lawyer should be more than briefed (by you beforehand) to speak on your behalf.

If you plead not guilty, well I can’t speak with any experience on this because I didn’t. But I guess it’ll be adjourned and a future hearing will be scheduled in due course.

Note that a guilty plea will usually attract a 25% reduction in the length of your ban, on completion of the drink drive awareness course (well worth doing) at any time you choose to during your ban; as a concession in exchange for your cooperation in entering a guilty plea. But if you enter a not guilty plea, and it fails, you will not receive this offer or reduction. And if anything, I’d expect a less lenient sentence in this instance also. They don’t look fondly on people trying it on and wasting court time (not that I am saying you would be, of course).

It goes without saying that you should turn up early, well-presented and dressed smartly. And please do get those references.

So if you’ve decided a guilty plea is best, it honestly isn’t so bad; that is if you are honest with those representing you as well as the beak, and of course polite and contrite in court.

If not, it will drag on much much longer, and as said above I can’t speak with much authority on what happens next there. TBF it’s exactly why - right at the beginning of this thread - I suggested getting a trustworthy lawyer to discuss this with. We all have a fair idea of how this will all pan out, but none of us are experts (except of course Martin Hammond, who I’m guessing you didn’t contact?)

 

[London89]

They will hear your plea first. During this bit you’ll just have to confirm your details and then all you have to say after is guilty or not guilty.

If you plead guilty, then sentencing will most likely be later that day (or possibly on another day shortly after, depending on the volume of cases in court at that time). So you’ll then leave the room and wait for the sentencing part.

However it’s during this wait that you’ll most likely speak to the probation officer, who is if you like the ‘neutral’ element between your counsel (i.e. your lawyer should you instruct one, or hopefully the duty solicitor if you don’t, who will be just as qualified to represent you) and the magistrate, and whom you will get to explain all of the many mitigating factors you describe above to.

You want the probation officer onside. These guys have the power to sway the sentencing from light to heavy. Your interview with the PO is your chance to really explain your illnesses, decision making on the day etc., and why it was so out of character for you. You should also provide to them copies of any character references for the magistrate (do you have any of these, if not you really should get some sorted, they do help believe me) and explain any constructive measures you might have undertaken since being charged (i.e. stopped drinking, attended any programmes, reviewed medication etc.). The PO I saw was quite friendly actually, which helped. I was going through a rotten period around the time of my conviction and I was glad for the opportunity to explain what had led to me making such a bad decision.

Then when you’re called back in for sentencing, the incident will be discussed in more detail. It’s entirely up to you whether or not you wish to speak during this part. I chose to because I was asked a few questions by the magistrate directly. But you aren’t compelled to, and your counsel and/or the lawyer should be more than briefed (by you beforehand) to speak on your behalf.

If you plead not guilty, well I can’t speak with any experience on this because I didn’t. But I guess it’ll be adjourned and a future hearing will be scheduled in due course.

Note that a guilty plea will usually attract a 25% reduction in the length of your ban, on completion of the drink drive awareness course (well worth doing) at any time you choose to during your ban; as a concession in exchange for your cooperation in entering a guilty plea. But if you enter a not guilty plea, and it fails, you will not receive this offer or reduction. And if anything, I’d expect a less lenient sentence in this instance also. They don’t look fondly on people trying it on and wasting court time (not that I am saying you would be, of course).

It goes without saying that you should turn up early, well-presented and dressed smartly. And please do get those references.

So if you’ve decided a guilty plea is best, it honestly isn’t so bad; that is if you are honest with those representing you as well as the beak, and of course polite and contrite in court.

If not, it will drag on much much longer, and as said above I can’t speak with much authority on what happens next there. TBF it’s exactly why - right at the beginning of this thread - I suggested getting a trustworthy lawyer to discuss this with. We all have a fair idea of how this will all pan out, but none of us are experts (except of course Martin Hammond, who I’m guessing you didn’t contact?)

Thank you very much for the detailed response. This has helped me greatly because l cannot stop worrying even though I try. I am 100% pleading guilty. This has shed a lot of light. I have asked friends and family for references and they obliged. I will gather additional information to present to the PO & Magistrate. Thank you very much. I will definitely update you when this is over. A few more days to go… 6 months after accident…

 

[Hobgoblin]

I think that's the correct decision, if you were over the limit when driving. As someone said, saying in Court 'on a regular day my communication and cognitive functioning is impaired' may have resulted in a more severe sentence if you were driving in that state.

 

[London89]

Very true.

I think that's the correct decision, if you were over the limit when driving. As someone said, saying in Court 'on a regular day my communication and cognitive functioning is impaired' may have resulted in a more severe sentence if you were driving in that state.

Very true

 

[Luna2000]

Please help. I am battling with my thoughts. l go to court on Wednesday for failure to provide. I plan on pleading not guilty on medical grounds. Some are advising me to plead guilty then present mitigating issues like my mental and physical health. My legal aid lawyer hasn’t contacted me up to now. They keep saying that they will phone.

First GP letter dated December 2022

Thank you for your email where you have requested information about your health.
In your email, you stated that you suffer from the following complaints:

Fibromyalgia
Chronic back pain
Depression and anxiety
Chest pain and chest heaviness

You report symptoms of generalised pain, anxiety, fatigue, depressed mood, reduced cognitive ability including changes to communication, processing of information and working memory, poor sleep and reduced mobility.

Your records do confirm the presence of the above mentioned illnesses all of which may cause symptoms that affect your day to day functioning including your ability to work.


Second My GP letter states dated 2018 (to show history that l have had these conditions for a long time, 10 years exactly).

In your email, you stated that you suffer from the following complaints

Fibromyalgia
Chronic back pain
Depression and anxiety

Your records do confirm the presence of the above mentioned illnesses all of which may cause symptoms that affect your day to day functioning.

The GP letters are evidencing my reasonable excuse on medical grounds because even on a regular day my communication and cognitive functioning is impaired hence refusing to comply with the request of providing a specimen.

Do l plead guilty or not guilty? I just want the best outcome possible.

Please give me your opinion. Thank you.

Sorry, but none of the above stop you from breathing, and the amount of 'puff' needed to activate the breath meter at the police station is not that much.

The only way you would get off with this is if you had severe COPD or lung cancer.

You will know how much and when you were drinking so will have a fairly good idea if you were over the limit.

Added to that is the fact that you refused to allow the hospital to take a blood sample.

And if you think that some of the comments on here are harsh, wait until you get to court where if you plead not guilty, the prosecution will have a field day with you.

You need to accept that the legal system don't know you and that you were offered the chance for a blood test as well as a breath test (urine?) As someone else on the forum has indicated, if you are soo anxious and your symptoms vary minute by minute, the DVLA may decide to revoke your licence until they can be assured you are fit and capable of driving your car at ALL time.

Sorry if we all sound a bit harsh, but I doubt anyone has gotten off after refusing both breath and blood samples. Also can you elaborate on what your solicitor said that out your mind at rest?

If it were me, I would plead guilty and take the punishment.

 

[London89]

Sorry, but none of the above stop you from breathing, and the amount of 'puff' needed to activate the breath meter at the police station is not that much.

The only way you would get off with this is if you had severe COPD or lung cancer.

You will know how much and when you were drinking so will have a fairly good idea if you were over the limit.

Added to that is the fact that you refused to allow the hospital to take a blood sample.

And if you think that some of the comments on here are harsh, wait until you get to court where if you plead not guilty, the prosecution will have a field day with you.

You need to accept that the legal system don't know you and that you were offered the chance for a blood test as well as a breath test (urine?) As someone else on the forum has indicated, if you are soo anxious and your symptoms vary minute by minute, the DVLA may decide to revoke your licence until they can be assured you are fit and capable of driving your car at ALL time.

Sorry if we all sound a bit harsh, but I doubt anyone has gotten off after refusing both breath and blood samples. Also can you elaborate on what your solicitor said that out your mind at rest?

If it were me, I would plead guilty and take the punishment.

True

 

[London89]

Guess who's back from court. ME. Immediate driving ban. Sentencing in 4 weeks. Was Referred to Probation Officer for a comprehensive mental health assessment and report.

Was assured that there won't be a custodial sentence. Am very very grateful for the Judge to extend me this opportunity, l am sure it will help with pointers and recommendations for treatment and maintenance of my physical and mental health issues which played a big part in lending me here.

Thank you very much for those that helped me. You made me see why l had to plead guilty and yes, today I did plead guilty. Thank you. It's 100% people on this forum who advised me to change my mind and accept responsibility for my actions.

 

[London89]

True

 

[Missbee]

Guess who's back from court. ME. Immediate driving ban. Sentencing in 4 weeks. Was Referred to Probation Officer for a comprehensive mental health assessment and report.

Was assured that there won't be a custodial sentence. Am very very grateful for the Judge to extend me this opportunity, l am sure it will help with pointers and recommendations for treatment and maintenance of my physical and mental health issues which played a big part in lending me here.

Thank you very much for those that helped me. You made me see why l had to plead guilty and yes, today I did plead guilty. Thank you. It's 100% people on this forum who advised me to change my mind and accept responsibility for my actions.

The hardest part is out the way now. You can start moving forward with life now and start processing the whole situation. Life without a licence gets easier.

 

[London89]

The hardest part is out the way now. You can start moving forward with life now and start processing the whole situation. Life without a licence gets easier.

Very true but remember that I have sentencing in 4 weeks.

 

[topchippyles]

Very true but remember that I have sentencing in 4 weeks.

Would have been a lot worse if you had pleaded not guilty.

 

[Sundog]

Very true but remember that I have sentencing in 4 weeks.

Also very true, but give yourself credit where due.

You got through today, and showed bravery and accountability for your actions. That’s a start.

Furthermore, the assessment report will hopefully go some way to explaining the difficulties you face day-to-day, and why it was perhaps a factor in your decision making 6 months ago.

Faced with what is always an agonising choice today, you made the right call which will end that agony sooner. It won’t be easy, but you have to now put it out of your head for 4 weeks and not worry about the formalities that will come. As rightly suggested above, these are all hurdles that need to be cleared in order to move on with your life. We have all been there and will help you through it whenever it gets tough. Well done for getting through it and making the correct decision.

 

[Everywhere]

Just get in contact with a solicitor and check the evidence they got, at least you can always go for a trial with a no guilty plea ( you can always turn to guilty in the next hearing)
Your ban is going to be the same but the fine and some community order in some cases will be higher on a no guilty plea if they found you guilty.
Also you can hold your license for a bit longer.
The bad part solicitors charge a bit more in a no guilty plea.

I don't know your full case and if they offered you urine or bloods to be taken. Did u mention them you not intentionally refuse?
Did u had any attempts on giving breath sample? Otherwise those mittigation will not really stand as they will have video evidence at the police station. But you better speak with a solicitor to request the records in time, as police has the duty to explain you twice that failure to provide is a criminal offence that is worst than drink driving. Also you will automaticly become a HRO if you found guilty of failure to provide.

 

[Everywhere]

Just get in contact with a solicitor and check the evidence they got, at least you can always go for a trial with a no guilty plea ( you can always turn to guilty in the next hearing)
Your ban is going to be the same but the fine and some community order in some cases will be higher on a no guilty plea if they found you guilty.
Also you can hold your license for a bit longer.
The bad part solicitors charge a bit more in a no guilty plea.

I don't know your full case and if they offer you urine or bloods to be taken. Did u mention them you not intentionally refuse?
Did u had any attempts on giving breath sample? Otherwise those mittigation will not really stand as they will have video evidence at the police station. But you better speak with a solicitor to request the records in time, as police has the duty to explain you twice that failure to provide is a criminal offence that is worst than drink driving. Also you will automaticly become a HRO if you found guilty of failure to provide.

I just realised you already did your plea.