Friend In Denial

[Miss Nottingham]

Hello,

Advice please.
I have a friend who is now 70 years old and has always been a heavy drinker and drives whilst I’m sure over the limit.
I have told him many times to stop, but just won’t listen.
He was caught drink driving in 2022, caused an accident, small car and caused road sign damage.
His story of events is very confusing and he is unsure what happened and who caused the accident.
He was banned for a year, did the course so actually banned for 9 months.

I have ready many posts on this website so I have an understanding of procedures etc.
He said he doesn’t have a conviction/no finger prints taken even though his breath test was 43.

He said his car was fully repaired by Saga and that the insurance still don’t know who caused the accident but he was being sued by the third party. Confused.com???
I feel he is deeply in denial and I believe he will have to pay costs of the third party pay out.
He was back on the road last year and still drinking heavily. I have distance myself from him as I feel something bad will happen again.
I know he drinks a bottle of wine per night, sometimes up to 3 bottles. In my opinion he is never sober.
He said he was in a bad place whilst banned and said at least I can drink whatever I like whilst banned. I suggested cutting down would be beneficial- this fell on deaf ears.
He has a £40k Range Rover and said his insurance only increased by £200.

Can anyone put my mind at rest as I am very concerned but feel totally helpless.

 

[Xeronema]

He has clearly gone off the rails. Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, if he hasn't even admitted to himself that he has a problem, there's a good chance that he isn't going to stop, at least not before he seriously hurts himself and/or others. That's just my opinion and from my own experience on ̷t̷h̷e̷ matters involving alcohol and from the mindset of an alcoholic or someone believed to be an alcoholic.

It's really easy for me to say, "report him to the police and/or to the DVLA", because morally that it what should be done. I get that you're in an awful position, if you do report him and he gets banned, he may drink even more, or just decide to drive whilst disqualified and uninsured.

I take it he doesn't have any family that you could speak with?

Edit: If he doesn't have any family, maybe there's someone else that you could chat with about your concerns? The reason I mention this is because they may be able to offer better support as they'll be able to discuss more personal matters that you may not feel comfortable talking about openly on this forum. Also, feel free to private message me about it, if you like. I can at least speak from experience - no pressure, the offer is there if you'd like to chat.

 

[Miss Nottingham]

He has clearly gone off the rails. Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, if he hasn't even admitted to himself that he has a problem, there's a good chance that he isn't going to stop, at least not before he seriously hurts himself and/or others. That's just my opinion and from my own experience on the matter.

It's really easy for me to say, "report him to the police and/or to the DVLA", because morally that it what should be done. I get that you're in an awful position, if you do report him and he gets banned, he may drink even more, or just decide to drive whilst disqualified and uninsured.

I take it he doesn't have any family that you could speak with?

Thank you so much for replying.

I’m in a difficult position now, I decided last year to keep away, I haven’t seen him in months as I struggled to cope with his continued excessive drinking. I tend to simply speak on the phone, he mentions still drinking and driving and doesn’t see a problem. He purchased a breathalyser but I found he didn’t use it.
All his friends and family are heavy drinkers, so it’s pointless speaking with them.

Due to his denial/lies about the accident/repairs/charges, I can’t make sense out of nonsense.

He works full time at 70 years old, so drives daily I’m sure over the limit. If he works away, he often brings bottles of wine with him whilst in the hotel.
His attitude changed so much since he was caught drink driving, I found it a challenge even talking to him. I felt he was blaming the world for his ban.

I think if Saga do try to recoup the 3rd party funds, this will push him into drinking even more.

I’m lost at what to do, I just knew one day he would be caught, and it’s likely he’ll get caught again.

 

[Xeronema]

Thank you so much for replying.

I’m in a difficult position now, I decided last year to keep away, I haven’t seen him in months as I struggled to cope with his continued excessive drinking. I tend to simply speak on the phone, he mentions still drinking and driving and doesn’t see a problem. He purchased a breathalyser but I found he didn’t use it.
All his friends and family are heavy drinkers, so it’s pointless speaking with them.

Due to his denial/lies about the accident/repairs/charges, I can’t make sense out of nonsense.

He works full time at 70 years old, so drives daily I’m sure over the limit. If he works away, he often brings bottles of wine with him whilst in the hotel.
His attitude changed so much since he was caught drink driving, I found it a challenge even talking to him. I felt he was blaming the world for his ban.

I think if Saga do try to recoup the 3rd party funds, this will push him into drinking even more.

I’m lost at what to do, I just knew one day he would be caught, and it’s likely he’ll get caught again.

My advice, especially after reading your response, report him to the police and the DVLA. I'm not one to go around grassing people up however, under the circumstances you've mentioned, I'd be reporting him. Being disqualified clearly hasn't taught him anything. I know that may appear to be harsh but to me it's the right thing to do.

Even though I don't know the man I'd feel awful for not advising you to report him, just as I'm sure you'd be stricken with guilt if he goes and gets in his car and kills someone whilst drink driving. It sounds like it's only a matter of time anyway.

 

[Xeronema]

I suspect he hasn't used the breathalyser because if he does he'll be the only one to blame if he gets caught again (he'll be the only to blame anyway, regardless of whether he has a breathalyser or not). It will be easier for him to pass the blame on to anyone but himself if he doesn't know how much over the limit he is.

I purchased a breathalyser after my first drink drive conviction. I found it very useful for checking myself the following day, after a binge drinking session the night before. It wasn't a cheap one (they really are pointless - like the keyring ones that just have a red and green LED), it needed regular calibrations. I spent months researching different models and finally went for a make and model that the police used to use. I'd never suggest someone getting one to use so that they could have a few drinks and then keep testing until they're under the limit - for me mine was designed to give me just that little bit extra peace of mind. I had a rule, even if it stated I was under the limit, I'd wait until it read < 5 and wait at least another hour. I also wouldn't drive unless I felt fit, even if it did read 0. Shame I didn't think to use it on the day I was arrested the second time around.

 

[Miss Nottingham]

I suspect he hasn't used the breathalyser because if he does he'll be the only one to blame if he gets caught again (he'll be the only to blame anyway, regardless of whether he has a breathalyser or not). It will be easier for him to pass the blame on to anyone but himself if he doesn't know how much over the limit he is.

I purchased a breathalyser after my first drink drive conviction. I found it very useful for checking myself the following day, after a binge drinking session the night before. It wasn't a cheap one (they really are pointless - like the keyring ones that just have a red and green LED), it needed regular calibrations. I spent months researching different models and finally went for a make and model that the police used to use. I'd never suggest someone getting one to use so that they could have a few drinks and then keep testing until they're under the limit - for me mine was designed to give me just that little bit extra peace of mind. I had a rule, even if it stated I was under the limit, I'd wait until it read < 5 and wait at least another hour. I also wouldn't drive unless I felt fit, even if it did read 0. Shame I didn't think to use it on the day I was arrested the second time around.

Thanks again for taking the time to give advice based on your experience.

I’ve never ever grassed anyone up before, and finding it difficult to even contemplate. I know I would feel enormously guilty if anything serious happens knowing I sat back and did nothing.

He is from a culture of serious drinking sessions, his own son is an alcoholic, his friends children now adults also have chronic alcohol problems.

Your comments are thought provoking and honest. I’ll spend time thinking over what I know and whether I should make calls.

I know your intentions are good.

 

[Xeronema]

I'm also one to not just grass someone up, however I have done in the past, and I'll tell you what it was.

I used to work behind a bar so I'd see my fair share of people drink driving, after I'd served them (as much as I would have liked to refuse a sale, I'd have lost my job pretty quickly for doing so). My first DR10 coviction was just after I'd only been working there for a few months, so it should have been a warning to everyone (yes, everyone in that village knew about my DR10 - I got a lot of support, as they thought I'd just been unlucky in getting caught). You can't keep anything a secret behind a bar, the entire village found out within the first 24 hours.

We had this man who would come in every Friday and Saturday, without fail, with his wife and two children (son 16, daughter 9). He lived in the same village as the pub, so within walking distance. They never walked to the pub, he always drove them there and back. Given that I worked behind the bar I knew how much he drank. He'd easily put away 12 - 15 pints of strong lager and then occasionally would have spirits. I watched him drink and drive for weeks before I decided I needed to do something about it. So, one Saturday evening I waited until an hour before he was due to leave (he'd always leave at the same time) and I called the police. I gave them his name, his address, his vehicle registration and even how many pints he'd already knocked back. I even provided the time he'd likely be leaving so that they could arrive and park around the corner ready to catch him.

What happened? Nothing. The police never showed up and I know that he's still driving to this day. I did what I thought was the right thing and nothing happened. Make of that what you will.

I'd also like to mention, for anyone thinking poorly of me, there were other reasons for me making the decision to grass him up. He was an extremely aggressive bloke and didn't exactly conduct himself very nicely around his wife. A bully that thought money could sort out all his problems and buy people off. He's the only person I've ever grassed up and the only time I'd ever do it again would be to protect other road users and pedestrians. Edit: I think that, morally, there's a huge difference between the following: !. Being over the limit from the night before, 2. Thinking you're ok after a few drinks (and feeling ok too), 3. Knowingly driving to a location that you could easily walk, drinking enough alcohol that you know would put you over the limit even 12 - 24 hours later and then driving home when you know you shouldn't - not just once but on dozens of occasions. I really wanted to point that out because I don't want people to think they can't talk to me. We've all messed up and we've all been punished (most of us still are getting punished), and I'm not one to judge for that.

I wish you all the best, I know it can't be an easy thing to get your head around. What ever you do, don't feel bad about your decision. Just because I've said that I'd feel bad about not reporting him, doesn't mean you should. As you and I both know, him losing his licence will more than likely make him spiral even more. Please feel free to private message me if you'd like to have a chat.

Xero.

 

[Miss Nottingham]

I'm also one to not just grass someone up, however I have done in the past, and I'll tell you what it was.

I used to work behind a bar so I'd see my fair share of people drink driving, after I'd served them (as much as I would have liked to refuse a sale, I'd have lost my job pretty quickly for doing so). My first DR10 coviction was just after I'd only been working there for a few months, so it should have been a warning to everyone (yes, everyone in that village knew about my DR10 - I got a lot of support, as they thought I'd just been unlucky in getting caught). You can't keep anything a secret behind a bar, the entire village found out within the first 24 hours.

We had this man who would come in every Friday and Saturday, without fail, with his wife and two children (son 16, daughter 9). He lived in the same village as the pub, so within walking distance. They never walked to the pub, he always drove them there and back. Given that I worked behind the bar I knew how much he drank. He'd easily put away 12 - 15 pints of strong lager and then occasionally would have spirits. I watched him drink and drive for weeks before I decided I needed to do something about it. So, one Saturday evening I waited until an hour before he was due to leave (he'd always leave at the same time) and I called the police. I gave them his name, his address, his vehicle registration and even how many pints he'd already knocked back. I even provided the time he'd likely be leaving so that they could arrive and park around the corner ready to catch him.

What happened? Nothing. The police never showed up and I know that he's still driving to this day. I did what I thought was the right thing and nothing happened. Make of that what you will.

I'd also like to mention, for anyone thinking poorly of me, there were other reasons for me making the decision to grass him up. He was an extremely aggressive bloke and didn't exactly conduct himself very nicely around his wife. A bully that thought money could sort out all his problems and buy people off. He's the only person I've ever grassed up and the only time I'd ever do it again would be to protect other road users and pedestrians. Edit: I think that, morally, there's a huge difference between the following: !. Being over the limit from the night before, 2. Thinking you're ok after a few drinks (and feeling ok too), 3. Knowingly driving to a location that you could easily walk, drinking enough alcohol that you know would put you over the limit even 12 - 24 hours later and then driving home when you know you shouldn't - not just once but on dozens of occasions. I really wanted to point that out because I don't want people to think they can't talk to me. We've all messed up and we've all been punished (most of us still are getting punished), and I'm not one to judge for that.

I wish you all the best, I know it can't be an easy thing to get your head around. What ever you do, don't feel bad about your decision. Just because I've said that I'd feel bad about not reporting him, doesn't mean you should. As you and I both know, him losing his licence will more than likely make him spiral even more. Please feel free to private message me if you'd like to have a chat.

Xero.

Hi Xero, just wanted to touch base with you again as you are amazingly helpful and reassuring.
I spoke with my friend yesterday, he said although he was convicted of a DR10, his car was repaired by Saga insurance even though the repairs took 3 months after the accident involving another car.
He was in Court September 2022 and they paid for and repaired his car November 2022. My understanding is his insurance would be invalid from the date he was convicted, so why would they repair his car knowing he was charged with DD in July?

I explained from researching on this website it usually isn’t the case and sometimes the insurance pursue you for the cost of the damages of other cars repairs/solicitors/injuries/Roadside damages. He said well- not in my case.
Later during the conversation he said the driver he hit is suing him.

I am totally confused. Any advice will be useful.

 

[Xeronema]

Hi Xero, just wanted to touch base with you again as you are amazingly helpful and reassuring.
I spoke with my friend yesterday, he said although he was convicted of a DR10, his car was repaired by Saga insurance even though the repairs took 3 months after the accident involving another car.
He was in Court September 2022 and they paid for and repaired his car November 2022. My understanding is his insurance would be invalid from the date he was convicted, so why would they repair his car knowing he was charged with DD in July?

I explained from researching on this website it usually isn’t the case and sometimes the insurance pursue you for the cost of the damages of other cars repairs/solicitors/injuries/Roadside damages. He said well- not in my case.
Later during the conversation he said the driver he hit is suing him.

I am totally confused. Any advice will be useful.

Hey Miss Nottingham, that's very kind of you to say, thank you

Well I'm certainly not surprised that you're confused - snap! I don't know of a single insurance company that would pay out for anything to a driver that was convicted for drink driving (DR10), they would be absolutely crackers to do that. I'm certain that he's trying to pull the wool over your eyes, and by the sounds of it he's doing a terrible job.

You're right about insurance companies pursuing the policy holder for damages, it does happen quite often. Now, I wouldn't be too shocked if the insurance company wasn't pursuing him for minor roadside damages (I myself wasn't pursued), and I also wouldn't be that phased if the insurance company had paid to repair his car also - if this is the case, I believe they've done it in error or, as I've said above, he's lying. If they have done it in error (unlikely, but not impossible) they'll be billing him for it.

The whole thing sounds like a right mess. Do you happen to know where the incident in 2022 took place? I'm thinking that maybe you should do a SAR (Subject Access Request), on his behalf (with his permission) for/at the police station that he was taken to after his arrest. That's if he doesn't have any paperwork for anything.

I know that Depressed Dad is great with all things pertaining to Insurance. I'm not really sure if he'll be able to offer much help/advice though as, like the rest of us, we're pretty confused.