Failure to provide specimen or specimens for analysis HELP:(

[Zuestheripper]

Hi all,

just wondering if someone has been charged with this road traffic offence and can share there experience and get advice from any one who knows. I have tried solicitors but I’m financially unable to use there services.

I got pulled over as my rear lights where not on, I had a 330 small beer and almost half off anther one a few hours prior to driving, I felt completely fine. I had not eaten all day and have not had any alcohol in ages, I was on paracetamols and antibiotics. The coppers did find a tiny bit of gear on me however I haven’t been charged for anything about that according to my paperwork

The police smelt it and breath tested me on road side, I blew 66 what is almost double the limit being 35.

in the police station I tried my best to do the breath test on there machine but I wasn’t able to blow how they wanted it and the machine wasn’t picking up any readings, hence been charged with failure to provide specimens after trying around 6-8 times give or take

I got a court date for early may, and not sure what to do at all. My license is my lively hood and without it I will be unable to make any income as a plumber I can’t travel on public transport with multiple lengths of pipes and materials, baths boilers you name it. and I have responsibilities and bills to pay, last year I had 7 months of to study and wasn’t working, I only became self employed I. January and this has happened a few days ago.

really not sure what to do as I can’t afford a solicitor I have called loads up and just don’t have the money to pay for them, literally just started my self up, got a loan on my Ulez van, tools workwear etc.


thanks

 

[JamesH2122]

You will be banned for at least 12 months and will need to pass a medical to get your licence back due to being a high risk offender. Sorry not to be the bearer of better news.

 

[jamesbrown1]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but you would have been better off if you could possibly have found a way to blow at the station. If you don't they tend to lean toward worst case scenario and judging by your roadside test you would have escaped the HRO classification.

Good luck, must be stressful when your job depends on your license.

 

[Zuestheripper]

You will be banned for at least 12 months and will need to pass a medical to get your licence back due to being a high risk offender. Sorry not to be the bearer of better news.

If I plead non guilty without a solicitor is there any chance of winning the case, my points being

- I have not drunk alcohol in ages
-I had a small amount and was unaware I was over the legal limit as I felt completely fine and was not impaired
- I was in paracetamols and anti Biotics
- I did not eat all day and finished work at 9:30 no food as has been hectic
-I was taking a 5 min journey to the petrol station and was planning to return back to my friends house
-I am claustrophobic and felt panicky as it’s my first time in hand cuffs and the police did not loosen them
- I never sit in the back of cars because of my claustrophobia
-I tried to blow into the machine but it just wasn’t picking up my readings
- I will never consume any alcohol not even a sip and drive again as I have already learnt my lesson staying one night in a cell
-without my license I am unable to pay my loans for mt vehicle that I just Purchased for work
-without work I am unable to help me dad with funds
- the company I work for since January has invested a lot of money in me as well as my self being the first apprentice on the firm to purchase there own tools and ulez vehicle (van)
-they have a gas course ready for me to do but I will be unable to continue without a license.

so much to loose on my side. Is there no chance at all without a solicitor, specialists, etc to test the machine or myself for any unaware medical issues I may have that caused me not to be able to blow correctly that I can win this case

 

[Zuestheripper]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but you would have been better off if you could possibly have found a way to blow at the station. If you don't they tend to lean toward worst case scenario and judging by your roadside test you would have escaped the HRO classification.

Good luck, must be stressful when your job depends on your license.

Don’t no what to do at this point, been through so much my entire life and recently a lot has been going on. All I was doing was going on a date that changed plans as I fisniehd work late so was just driving to the petrol station to grab some things with the girl that I went to see to return back to her house 5 mins away

 

[JamesH2122]

If I plead non guilty without a solicitor is there any chance of winning the case, my points being

- I have not drunk alcohol in ages
-I had a small amount and was unaware I was over the legal limit as I felt completely fine and was not impaired
- I was in paracetamols and anti Biotics
- I did not eat all day and finished work at 9:30 no food as has been hectic
-I was taking a 5 min journey to the petrol station and was planning to return back to my friends house
-I am claustrophobic and felt panicky as it’s my first time in hand cuffs and the police did not loosen them
- I never sit in the back of cars because of my claustrophobia
-I tried to blow into the machine but it just wasn’t picking up my readings
- I will never consume any alcohol not even a sip and drive again as I have already learnt my lesson staying one night in a cell
-without my license I am unable to pay my loans for mt vehicle that I just Purchased for work
-without work I am unable to help me dad with funds
- the company I work for since January has invested a lot of money in me as well as my self being the first apprentice on the firm to purchase there own tools and ulez vehicle (van)
-they have a gas course ready for me to do but I will be unable to continue without a license.

so much to loose on my side. Is there no chance at all without a solicitor, specialists, etc to test the machine or myself for any unaware medical issues I may have that caused me not to be able to blow correctly that I can win this case

Realistically, you have no way of avoiding a ban (I'm sure others here will speak up if they think differently) - either with or without a lawyer.

I would spend your time focusing on keeping the ban to a minimum, by perhaps writing a letter of apology to the magistrates, getting references from people to give to the court, and so on.

The roadside test is not one that can be used to get a reading from, but the fact it was almost double the legal limit suggest you must have had more than you remember. The lack of food wouldn't make a difference - food slows the rate alcohol leaves the body, so if you'd had food you may have blown higher. Having cannabis on you will also not help, if it is mentioned in court, as it could be used to argue you don't have much respect for the law, something the magistrates will not take well.

The only possible argument you could make (again, others can correct me if I am wrong) is if your history of claustrophobia and panic attacks are on record with your doctor. Does you medial file make references to them and what can trigger them?

 

[Zuestheripper]

Realistically, you have no way of avoiding a ban (I'm sure others here will speak up if they think differently) - either with or without a lawyer.

I would spend your time focusing on keeping the ban to a minimum, by perhaps writing a letter of apology to the magistrates, getting references from people to give to the court, and so on.

The roadside test is not one that can be used to get a reading from, but the fact it was almost double the legal limit suggest you must have had more than you remember. The lack of food wouldn't make a difference - food slows the rate alcohol leaves the body, so if you'd had food you may have blown higher. Having cannabis on you will also not help, if it is mentioned in court, as it could be used to argue you don't have much respect for the law, something the magistrates will not take well.

The only possible argument you could make (again, others can correct me if I am wrong) is if your history of claustrophobia and panic attacks are on record with your doctor. Does you medial file make references to them and what can trigger them?

I can get a reference from my boss saying how good I have been doing as a apprentice at the firm. I can also write to the judge too, do I need to send this in prior to attending or just bring it in with me on the date.

i didn’t have cannabis I had the snow on me. When leaving the station and getting my items at the end, the police had the check to even leave me the wrapper it came in, of course empty.

I don’t have any medical records of claustrophobia as I haven’t needed to inform the doctors and same with panic attacks. I don’t go doctors even when im f*cked

 

[Forum Moderator]

If I plead non guilty without a solicitor is there any chance of winning the case, my points being

- I have not drunk alcohol in ages
-I had a small amount and was unaware I was over the legal limit as I felt completely fine and was not impaired
- I was in paracetamols and anti Biotics
- I did not eat all day and finished work at 9:30 no food as has been hectic
-I was taking a 5 min journey to the petrol station and was planning to return back to my friends house
-I am claustrophobic and felt panicky as it’s my first time in hand cuffs and the police did not loosen them
- I never sit in the back of cars because of my claustrophobia
-I tried to blow into the machine but it just wasn’t picking up my readings
- I will never consume any alcohol not even a sip and drive again as I have already learnt my lesson staying one night in a cell
-without my license I am unable to pay my loans for mt vehicle that I just Purchased for work
-without work I am unable to help me dad with funds
- the company I work for since January has invested a lot of money in me as well as my self being the first apprentice on the firm to purchase there own tools and ulez vehicle (van)
-they have a gas course ready for me to do but I will be unable to continue without a license.

so much to loose on my side. Is there no chance at all without a solicitor, specialists, etc to test the machine or myself for any unaware medical issues I may have that caused me not to be able to blow correctly that I can win this case

None or your points above would amount to a possible defence for failing to provide an evidential specimen for analysis.

Even with a serious pre-existing medical condition that could be backed up with doctor, medical consultant & expert reports along with a good solicitor on your side there is no guarantee that you would be able to amount a successful defence.

Pleading not guilty because you felt panicky as it was your first time in handcuffs and you felt claustrophobic because you were sitting in the back of the car will not amount to a reasonable excuse as to why you were unable to provide a sufficient breath sample. I'm sure a large percentage of people feel panicky when they are arrested.

Being unaware that you were over the legal limit and feeling like you were not impaired doesn't make any difference, drink driving is a strict liability offence. As long as it can be proven that the alcohol level in a persons system exceeded the legal limit then that person is guilty of an offence, the prosecution don't have to prove that a person was impaired and the person does not have to be aware that they are over the limit in order to be found guilty. A lot of people are caught the morning after the night before, wrongly thinking they are ok to drive when in reality the alcohol in their system exceeds the limit.

In any case, being over the legal limit or not has no bearing on your case as you are not charged with drink driving but failing to provide without a reasonable excuse.

In regards to references and letters to the judge, just take them with you on the day of your court case.

The lowest sentencing bracket for failing to provide is 12-16 months disqualification and a fine. I agree that you should focus on trying to keep your ban to a minimum.

 

[Zuestheripper]

None or your points above would amount to a possible defence for failing to provide an evidential specimen for analysis.

Even with a serious pre-existing medical condition that could be backed up with doctor, medical consultant & expert reports along with a good solicitor on your side there is no guarantee that you would be able to amount a successful defence.

Pleading not guilty because you felt panicky as it was your first time in handcuffs and you felt claustrophobic because you were sitting in the back of the car will not amount to a reasonable excuse as to why you were unable to provide a sufficient breath sample. I'm sure a large percentage of people feel panicky when they are arrested.

Being unaware that you were over the legal limit and feeling like you were not impaired doesn't make any difference, drink driving is a strict liability offence. As long as it can be proven that the alcohol level in a persons system exceeded the legal limit then that person is guilty of an offence, the prosecution don't have to prove that a person was impaired and the person does not have to be aware that they are over the limit in order to be found guilty. A lot of people are caught the morning after the night before, wrongly thinking they are ok to drive when in reality the alcohol in their system exceeds the limit.

In any case, being over the legal limit or not has no bearing on your case as you are not charged with drink driving but failing to provide without a reasonable excuse.

In regards to references and letters to the judge, just take them with you on the day of your court case.

The lowest sentencing bracket for failing to provide is 12-16 months disqualification and a fine. I agree that you should focus on trying to keep your ban to a minimum.

after your advice I think going guilty is the best thing to do, but what happens when the judge says to me why did you fail, am I honest and say I was trying but for whatever reason I couldn’t do it correctly.

I am remorseful and would never do this again! I am still currently driving until my court date and already feel down / sad and disappointed.

is there a possibility of getting 12 month ban with the 25% reducer down to 9 months ?

 

[Forum Moderator]

after your advice I think going guilty is the best thing to do, but what happens when the judge says to me why did you fail, am I honest and say I was trying but for whatever reason I couldn’t do it correctly.

I would just be honest if you are asked any questions by the Magistrate.

is there a possibility of getting 12 month ban with the 25% reducer down to 9 months ?

Yes, if the Magistrates decide that you fall into the lower sentencing bracket you can see the sentencing guidelines here.

 

[Gilln1]

Almost all of us on this forum have been where you have and had that god awful feeling when you get caught and the immediate aftermath. Then also throwing round all those things in the mind of.....

"How can I possibly get myself out of this situation?"

The bottom line is though that in the vast majority of cases, you can't, because whether it was premeditated or not we got in our vehicles and were caught over the limit.

The list of reasons you gave to maybe plead Not Guilty are not reasons for 'why' you did it, they are reasons for 'why I don't want to be banned' so unless you have something cast iron that would stand up in a court as a mitigating circumstance as to why you were caught over the limit - and from what I have understand there are very very few, and pretty much need to be life threatening reasons - and not be prosecuted then Not Guilty may end up a lot worse for you.

The very best thing to do from now is to be honest with yourself.

Did you do it?

Did you really only have 1.5 beers? I only say that as 66 seems quite high for such a low amount of beer - and I am not judging you or calling you a liar, but sometimes things get a bit confused, maybe even more so if 'the snow' was involved.

Did you really struggle to blow or were you trying not to? Again I am not judging you, some people really do get serious anxiety about it, people here have written about it.

The police and courts do this all day everyday and its a tried and tested system....millions of times over. You / we can't pull the wool over their eyes even if we wanted to. You sound like a hard working guy who made a bad error of judgement, just like many of the men and women on here have before you, and will after you....including me

If you are guilty then try to level that in your head and focus your efforts on minimising the punishment, rather than trying to get out of it, because its pretty much a given you will be banned. Get your references, dress smart, be polite, be remorseful.....if you aren't using a solicitor make sure you ask for the Drink Driving course while in court. Others here can tell you about the Duty Solicitor better than I can.

The other thing I would say is, use the forum. You will not be judged here, you can speak honestly and openly with people who will have done far less and far worse. For me and many others it is this forum and the words of some very kind and knowledgeable people who have been in the same situation that helped me get through things.....and you will get through it to. Share your experiences now, during and after. It will be good for you and others.

Please do not take anything I have said as a criticism, because it really isn't....we've made our mistakes, we pay the price. You will adapt, because you have too. It really sucks, but it will get better. Read these pages and you will see that your world hasn't ended....it will just be on a temporary (short, hopefully) hold.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Samilewi]

Hi, I pleaded not guilty in my case of failing to provide because I do have anxiety, panic attacks (was prescribed propanol a few months before) and depression which was all on my medical record. I also had a letter from my doctor confirming this and my medical records in front of them and I still got sentenced. I got a 16 months ban, a fine and offered to do the drink driving course which brought my ban down 16 weeks. I would definitely plead guilty in your case as the bullet points you said above don't justify as a reasonable excuse not to give a breath sample.

It's really shit, I know. I was in a spiral of depression after what happened with me. Things do get better even though you may not think so now. If I read this and was you right now, I'd be thinking 'yeah right', but I promise you, once court is over and you have been sentenced, you'll actually feel better and relieved the court is over. Right now, between being arrested and waiting for court is the worst time in the whole process.

Good luck x

 

[Gilln1]

Hi, I pleaded not guilty in my case of failing to provide because I do have anxiety, panic attacks (was prescribed propanol a few months before) and depression which was all on my medical record. I also had a letter from my doctor confirming this and my medical records in front of them and I still got sentenced. I got a 16 months ban, a fine and offered to do the drink driving course which brought my ban down 16 weeks. I would definitely plead guilty in your case as the bullet points you said above don't justify as a reasonable excuse not to give a breath sample.

It's really shit, I know. I was in a spiral of depression after what happened with me. Things do get better even though you may not think so now. If I read this and was you right now, I'd be thinking 'yeah right', but I promise you, once court is over and you have been sentenced, you'll actually feel better and relieved the court is over. Right now, between being arrested and waiting for court is the worst time in the whole process.

Good luck x

I absolutely agree with you about court. Once that day was over I felt like a weight had been lifted and I could then deal with it head on.

 

[Samilewi]

I absolutely agree with you about court. Once that day was over I felt like a weight had been lifted and I could then deal with it head on.

Absolutely. It's the worry of not knowing what you'll get and the anxiety of being in court in the run up to it. But once you know, you can deal with it head on like you said. You will adapt to your temporary life changes because you have to. It may be a bit shitty and challenging at times throughout your ban but you'll overcome it and always know that it's not forever and you'll be back on the road once again

 

[Guygibson]

You made thinks worse by not blowing in the machine you will get banned thats a definite and magistrates seem to giving out 18 month bans alot now as a minimum sentence.
Its crap but as people have said once you have been to court its a big relief so hang in there.

 

[Zuestheripper]

Just wanna thank you all for your words it has made me feel a lot better speaking to others who have been through similar to me.

I am scared and worried so that is what I said to the police at the time however I did have 3 rum and coke, it’s alot worse I’m getting and just want a low sentence at this point

 

[Samilewi]

Just wanna thank you all for your words it has made me feel a lot better speaking to others who have been through similar to me.

I am scared and worried so that is what I said to the police at the time however I did have 3 rum and coke, it’s alot worse I’m getting and just want a low sentence at this point

I'm glad you found the forum so soon after your incident. I didn't find this forum until only a few weeks ago and my story has been going on since April last year! I've felt so much better since I've been on here - I definitely needed this in the first few weeks and wish I found it sooner. Please keep with us

 

[Zuestheripper]

Hey guys, so just wondering, as I told the police etc i had one beer. How do I go about saying to the judge I had a little more and it wasn’t beer…. Without sounding to bad in that sense even thought it is

 

[Samilewi]

Hey guys, so just wondering, as I told the police etc i had one beer. How do I go about saying to the judge I had a little more and it wasn’t beer…. Without sounding to bad in that sense even thought it is

To be honest, there's no way around it for it to sound okay unfortunately. All you can do is say you were scared at the time to admitting what you actually had and you're sorry and show remorse. Your breath shows you had more than one beer being 66 so they will already know it was more than 'one beer'. Your honesty is best in this situation

 

[Luna2000]

Hey guys, so just wondering, as I told the police etc i had one beer. How do I go about saying to the judge I had a little more and it wasn’t beer…. Without sounding to bad in that sense even thought it is

Plead guilty and say in mitigation that your anxiety etc made it difficult for you to blow into the machine. If you don't have a solicitor representing you, make sure you ask the judge if he will offer you the Drink Driving Awareness Course, or remind your solicitor to do this if you have one. Mine didn't the first time. From memory, this costs around £150 and needs to be paid by you. The course runs over 4 days and you need to attend every day and fully partake to obtain your certificate and will reduce your ban by 25%

No one will ask you how much or what you had to drink. Normally they use the evidential breath reading but in your case, it will be that you simply refused. The reason no one cares about what you had to drink is that there is no way of proving it.

As with the police, say as little as possible if you are ever asked anything by the judge.

Yours is a fairly open and shut case as far as they are concerned and you will be dealt with very quickly as they need to keep the process in the court moving.

FYI I was banned twice. First reading was 124, second reading was 96. The first time I actually had empty bottles of vodka miniatures rattling around on the floor in the back of the car but this wasn't mentioned in court.

I am afraid you will be banned and it may be best to speak with your employer about how they can help you through the period of the ban. Perhaps you can buddy up with another engineer? And is there some way that another person in the company can buy your van off you?

You need to address the practical issues that will inevitably follow once you are banned. The worse thing you can do is ignore them. Also, make sure you cancel your insurance policy. Don't let your insurers cancel it. You also do not need to give them a reason why you are canceling although when you next go to take out insurance you will need to provide the ban details for 5 years from the date of conviction.

If you keep the van, you need to get someone else to insure it with them as the only driver. Even if kept off-road, you will still be better getting them to insure it 3rd party.

Make sure you tell the DVLA if it is stored off-road and claim back your road tax if any.

And stop doing coke. I'm surprised the cops didn't test you for that as well.