Failing to provide a specamin

Convicted Driver Insurance
It remains on your licence record for 11 years, but the only reason for that is if you get 2 convictions in 10 years you get a minimum 3 year ban. To stop people being caught at 9.5 years and then getting a few adjournments to go past the 10 years and the first one disappearing, it stays on the licence for 11 years.
So the conviction is spent after 5 years as a criminal conviction (unless you have an enhanced DBS when it is 11 years), is disclosable for insurance for 5 years, remains on your record for court purposes for 10 years, but is not removed for 11 years.
Simple, isn’t it!!!!!
That’s an excellent and succinct summary. To be fair , it does all make sense , albeit unpalatable !!!
 
It remains on your licence record for 11 years, but the only reason for that is if you get 2 convictions in 10 years you get a minimum 3 year ban. To stop people being caught at 9.5 years and then getting a few adjournments to go past the 10 years and the first one disappearing, it stays on the licence for 11 years.
So the conviction is spent after 5 years as a criminal conviction (unless you have an enhanced DBS when it is 11 years), is disclosable for insurance for 5 years, remains on your record for court purposes for 10 years, but is not removed for 11 years.
Simple, isn’t it!!!!!
You guys and girls have all been great I’ve not slept properly for days waiting for all this to be over . I wil let you know what the outcome is . 3 more sleepless nights
 
You guys and girls have all been great I’ve not slept properly for days waiting for all this to be over . I wil let you know what the outcome is . 3 more sleepless nights
I can tell you absolutely for sure :
1) It won’t be as bad as you fear;
2) Once Court is over you will really start to be able to move on ;
3) You will manage without driving , even if it takes thinking about .
😃
 
To be a High Risk Offender and be facing a minimum 3 year ban, you have to have 2 Drink drive offences within 10 years.
That time runs from the date you were convicted for the first offence to the date you were caught for the second offence. (The 11 years that CJ1980 mentions is for The courts to be aware of the 10 years, if the case takes a while to come to court beyond the 10 year point) so if there was a 10 1/2 year gap then you are clear of the 3 year minimum rule.

If your PTSD and anxiety is particularly bad, and you can evidence that it would have affected your ability to blow, then you could consider pleading not guilty. The offence is ‘failing to supply without reasonable excuse’. The drawback to that is that the police might decide to report your circumstances to DVLA who could consider revoking your licence on medical grounds!
You may well fall into the lowest ‘fail to supply’ bracket of a 12-16 months ban. This is where there were reasons for failing to supply, but they do not amount to an actual defence….. and there is no particular evidence of significant intoxication.

If the police have evidence that you appeared to be intoxicated, from witnesses and the custody video, and your medical problems are not felt to have affected your ability to blow, then you could be facing a 17-28 months ban, but this can hopefully be avoided, or certainly kept at the lower end of that scale.

All the above can be reduced by up to 25% if you are offered in court the chance to attend a Drink Drive Rehabilitation Course. Make sure to ask for it if you are not offered, as the offer cannot be made when your case is finished in court.
Perhaps your starting point should be to write to the police station that you were detained at, giving your personal details and the time / date you were in custody and request that you be supplied with a copy of your custody record and the custody video. You are entitled to apply for this. You can then view how you seemed to be that day, and have a clearer picture of the events in the police station than you recollect yourself because of the stress that you were probably under.
Hi pricey

seen a solicitor today ( friend of the family ) he has told me that I00% no jail time and he thinks that we should go not guilty , due to medication he says I have nothing to lose it’s a fine and a Ban if found guilty or not guilty . I posed certain questions to him like what if I pleaded not guilty yet was found guilty does this not make me more elidgable for prison , his answer was I’ve told you no prison time ! There has to be drawbacks to this surely ? As you can see friend of the family or not I don’t trust many people ! He really wants to fight this
 
Derekward,
Did the solicitor mention that if you go not guilty and are found guilty then the prosecution costs you have to pay have risen from £85 to £625? And the court will be less likely to offer you a Drink Drive Rehabilitation course to reduce your ban?

Did he ask you to contact your doctor urgently to see if your medical notes would support your claim that you would have been unable to blow into the breath test machine, due to PTSD and / or the medication…..because your word that it did would count for very little.

Did he give you a firm idea of what this will cost you?

Have you asked the solicitor what experience he has in dealing with contested fail to supply breath test cases? It is quite specialised and if he has not dealt with quite a few of these he will be struggling to put forward a coherent case.

Have you done what I suggested and asked for a copy of your custody video, which will show how you were behaving and what attempts you made to blow into the machine? If not, do so URGENTLY !!
 
Derekward,
Did the solicitor mention that if you go not guilty and are found guilty then the prosecution costs you have to pay have risen from £85 to £625? And the court will be less likely to offer you a Drink Drive Rehabilitation course to reduce your ban?

Did he ask you to contact your doctor urgently to see if your medical notes would support your claim that you would have been unable to blow into the breath test machine, due to PTSD and / or the medication…..because your word that it did would count for very little.

Did he give you a firm idea of what this will cost you?

Have you asked the solicitor what experience he has in dealing with contested fail to supply breath test cases? It is quite specialised and if he has not dealt with quite a few of these he will be struggling to put forward a coherent case.

Have you done what I suggested and asked for a copy of your custody video, which will show how you were behaving and what attempts you made to blow into the machine? If not, do so URGENTLY !!
He told me that he personally won’t charge me and that he is going to ask for more time in court to gather more evidence ie police report forensics on the medication I’m on etc
 
That is very generous of him.
What about his experience in this?
He may not charge you, But if you need a specialist report on the medication that will cost at least £300, with it going up to £800 if the expert has to attend in person if the prosecution do not accept his report…… Even if you win, you will not be able to claim these costs back.
I am not trying to tell you you should plead guilty, I just want you to have the full picture of what you are exposed to by pleading not guilty. If you are comfortable with these risks then that is fine.
Have you applied for the custody video? That s crucial to your case and some police forces only keep them for 30 days……..
 
That is very generous of him.
What about his experience in this?
He may not charge you, But if you need a specialist report on the medication that will cost at least £300, with it going up to £800 if the expert has to attend in person if the prosecution do not accept his report…… Even if you win, you will not be able to claim these costs back.
I am not trying to tell you you should plead guilty, I just want you to have the full picture of what you are exposed to by pleading not guilty. If you are comfortable with these risks then that is fine.
Have you applied for the custody video? That s crucial to your case and some police forces only keep them for 30 days……..
He told me I have 3 choices plead guilty fine and Ban plead not guilty fine and ban and 3rdly ask for more time from the courts to get the case files etc . He has not mentioned all the extra costs I might incur . I am meeting him at court on Thursday so I guess I have a day to make a decision although I did tell him I’m not keen on the idea of pleading not guilty
 
He missed out, on the second one ‘plead not guilty - fine and ban’ : chance of increased ban, increased prosecution costs over £500 more, costs of expert witness statement and less chance of a reduction in the ban by being offered a course.
Apart from that, he is right.
There can be merit in asking for more time to see what the options are once your medical history has been evaluated, but you can do that yourself quickly with a phone call with your GP. Oh, and asking for the custody video…… 3rd time of asking, has that been applied for????????????????
 
He missed out, on the second one ‘plead not guilty - fine and ban’ : chance of increased ban, increased prosecution costs over £500 more, costs of expert witness statement and less chance of a reduction in the ban by being offered a course.
Apart from that, he is right.
There can be merit in asking for more time to see what the options are once your medical history has been evaluated, but you can do that yourself quickly with a phone call with your GP. Oh, and asking for the custody video…… 3rd time of asking, has that been applied for????????????????
Hi pricey that’s what he is asking more time for to get the police records etc
 
The prosecution case will simply be that you were required to provide 2 specimens of breath, and you failed to do so “without reasonable excuse”
THAT is what he (you ) need to focus on, not the prosecution case which is very simple, but gathering evidence to aid your defence.
You do not have to wait till court to start gathering your defence (if pleading not guilty)
I did suggest 5 days ago that you should apply for A copy of your custody record And it seems you have not bothered yet?

One other factor your solicitor missed out in the consequences of guilty versus not guilty….
At the moment, with PTSD and the hint that medication played a part in your failure to supply, you should be in the 12-16 month ban bracket.
With a not guilty plea, a lot more may come out about your behaviour and how intoxicated you appeared. If you are then found guilty, the court will have rejected that you had “honest held reasons for not supplying, whilst not amounting to an actual defence”. And may place you in the second bracket of simply not providing without a valid reason, and put you on the 17-28 month ban area.
Please do not think that pleading not guilty is the same as guilty so you might as well do it.
If that is what the solicitor actually advised, then he is very inexperienced in this area.
 
The prosecution case will simply be that you were required to provide 2 specimens of breath, and you failed to do so “without reasonable excuse”
THAT is what he (you ) need to focus on, not the prosecution case which is very simple, but gathering evidence to aid your defence.
You do not have to wait till court to start gathering your defence (if pleading not guilty)
I did suggest 5 days ago that you should apply for A copy of your custody record And it seems you have not bothered yet?

One other factor your solicitor missed out in the consequences of guilty versus not guilty….
At the moment, with PTSD and the hint that medication played a part in your failure to supply, you should be in the 12-16 month ban bracket.
With a not guilty plea, a lot more may come out about your behaviour and how intoxicated you appeared. If you are then found guilty, the court will have rejected that you had “honest held reasons for not supplying, whilst not amounting to an actual defence”. And may place you in the second bracket of simply not providing without a valid reason, and put you on the 17-28 month ban area.
Please do not think that pleading not guilty is the same as guilty so you might as well do it.
If that is what the solicitor actually advised, then he is very inexperienced in this area.
This is what I am thinking I have messaged him explaining that if I was to
Plead not guilty and found to be guilty that the costs would be to much for me . I have told him that I want to plead guilty I just hope he turns up as he said he would otherwise I’m on my own . I’m not sure of his benefit in pleading not guilty but my guess is it has something to do with money legal Aid or something as I signed a form for that today
 
Please consider fully a not guilty plea, these people are not stupid people they have seen and heard it all, and the courts do not take kindly to trying this, I got the highest end of the ban scale and a £1200 fine not to mention the stress. Your videos on arrest Will be played in court (on a huge screen) so make sure you view this and feel comfortable dismissing you are not intoxicated.
 
Please consider fully a not guilty plea, these people are not stupid people they have seen and heard it all, and the courts do not take kindly to trying this, I got the highest end of the ban scale and a £1200 fine not to mention the stress. Your videos on arrest Will be played in court (on a huge screen) so make sure you view this and feel comfortable dismissing you are not intoxicated.
Hi,

I agree with everything that has been posted on this thread. However! If you know that you are whole heartedly innocent go not guilty....as just giving up will just do your head in.

That is the question you need to ask yourself.

Kind regards,




Stu
 
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