Failing to provide a specamin
- Thread starter Derekward
- Start date
price1367
TTC Group
Prison for drink drivingIs rare, especially for a first time offence.
Can you tell us a bit more about what happened…..
Did you have an accident?
Did you give a roadside breath test? If so, what was the reading?
Did you try to blow in to the machine at the police station at all? If not, why?
If you gave one sample (you have to give 2 that the machine accepts) what was the reading?
Are there any medical reasons why you did not supply the samples? If there are, did you tell the police when they booked you in to custody or when they warned you of the consequences of not providing a sample?
The answers to those questions will enable a reasonable guess as to the length of the ban you are facing. Fail to supply carries a ban of 12-36 months according to the circumstances…….
Can you tell us a bit more about what happened…..
Did you have an accident?
Did you give a roadside breath test? If so, what was the reading?
Did you try to blow in to the machine at the police station at all? If not, why?
If you gave one sample (you have to give 2 that the machine accepts) what was the reading?
Are there any medical reasons why you did not supply the samples? If there are, did you tell the police when they booked you in to custody or when they warned you of the consequences of not providing a sample?
The answers to those questions will enable a reasonable guess as to the length of the ban you are facing. Fail to supply carries a ban of 12-36 months according to the circumstances…….
Derekward
Member
Yes I grazed a car at McDonald’s drive threw he rang the police they didn’t do a roadside test when I got to the station they asked me to blow into machine and I explained I was on medication for PTSD and anxiety and could I speak to the duty solicitor first they said no so I refused after about 3 minutes I said ok I’ll do it they said it’s to late now . It’s my 2nd offence I got charged for drink driving 10 and a half years ago Thankyou for your response. I have spoke to a solicitor who said I won’t go to prison along with the custody Sargent but it’s not stopping me worrying
C J 1980
Established Member
Derekward
If you were done for drink driving ten and half years ago, there is a likely chance you will be classed as a HRO (High Risk Offender) and be looking at a minimum of 36 months off the road this time around.
A DR10 marker lasts for 11 years from the date of the first conviction. Even though, you do not have to declare your conviction after five years, the DR10 serves as sentencing guidance for Magistrates when dealing with second DUI offences within 11 years.
You might be fortunate, not to fall into the HRO category, but I reckon if you are just short of the 11 year milestone from the first offence, you could be looking at a lengthy ban.
As Price has rightly pointed out - you will not go to prison, but the Magistrates bench may impose a further punishment this time around which might be community service or some sort of referral if you have any alcohol issues.
CJ
price1367
TTC Group
To be a High Risk Offender and be facing a minimum 3 year ban, you have to have 2 Drink drive offences within 10 years.
That time runs from the date you were convicted for the first offence to the date you were caught for the second offence. (The 11 years that CJ1980 mentions is for The courts to be aware of the 10 years, if the case takes a while to come to court beyond the 10 year point) so if there was a 10 1/2 year gap then you are clear of the 3 year minimum rule.
If your PTSD and anxiety is particularly bad, and you can evidence that it would have affected your ability to blow, then you could consider pleading not guilty. The offence is ‘failing to supply without reasonable excuse’. The drawback to that is that the police might decide to report your circumstances to DVLA who could consider revoking your licence on medical grounds!
You may well fall into the lowest ‘fail to supply’ bracket of a 12-16 months ban. This is where there were reasons for failing to supply, but they do not amount to an actual defence….. and there is no particular evidence of significant intoxication.
If the police have evidence that you appeared to be intoxicated, from witnesses and the custody video, and your medical problems are not felt to have affected your ability to blow, then you could be facing a 17-28 months ban, but this can hopefully be avoided, or certainly kept at the lower end of that scale.
All the above can be reduced by up to 25% if you are offered in court the chance to attend a Drink Drive Rehabilitation Course. Make sure to ask for it if you are not offered, as the offer cannot be made when your case is finished in court.
Perhaps your starting point should be to write to the police station that you were detained at, giving your personal details and the time / date you were in custody and request that you be supplied with a copy of your custody record and the custody video. You are entitled to apply for this. You can then view how you seemed to be that day, and have a clearer picture of the events in the police station than you recollect yourself because of the stress that you were probably under.
That time runs from the date you were convicted for the first offence to the date you were caught for the second offence. (The 11 years that CJ1980 mentions is for The courts to be aware of the 10 years, if the case takes a while to come to court beyond the 10 year point) so if there was a 10 1/2 year gap then you are clear of the 3 year minimum rule.
If your PTSD and anxiety is particularly bad, and you can evidence that it would have affected your ability to blow, then you could consider pleading not guilty. The offence is ‘failing to supply without reasonable excuse’. The drawback to that is that the police might decide to report your circumstances to DVLA who could consider revoking your licence on medical grounds!
You may well fall into the lowest ‘fail to supply’ bracket of a 12-16 months ban. This is where there were reasons for failing to supply, but they do not amount to an actual defence….. and there is no particular evidence of significant intoxication.
If the police have evidence that you appeared to be intoxicated, from witnesses and the custody video, and your medical problems are not felt to have affected your ability to blow, then you could be facing a 17-28 months ban, but this can hopefully be avoided, or certainly kept at the lower end of that scale.
All the above can be reduced by up to 25% if you are offered in court the chance to attend a Drink Drive Rehabilitation Course. Make sure to ask for it if you are not offered, as the offer cannot be made when your case is finished in court.
Perhaps your starting point should be to write to the police station that you were detained at, giving your personal details and the time / date you were in custody and request that you be supplied with a copy of your custody record and the custody video. You are entitled to apply for this. You can then view how you seemed to be that day, and have a clearer picture of the events in the police station than you recollect yourself because of the stress that you were probably under.
R25644
Well Known Member
prison is definitely of the cards. The advice so far sounds right in regards to the length of the ban.
Failure to provide automatically classes you as a HRO regardless of whether it’s your first offence or not. So you will have to do a medical after your ban.
Derekward
Member
Thankyou
Derekward
Member
Thankyou
My 10 years was up March this year 11 years March next year will this have any bearing on my sentence
R25644
Well Known Member
The advice from CJ and Price sound spot on with regards to the 10 year limit.
All I know is I was convict for Failure to supply in February 2020. It was my first and only offence and was classed as a HRO so needed to do a medical.
C J 1980
Established Member
Derek
I have only just realised that although you have escaped the 10/11 year trap of being a HRO (thanks to Pricey for clearing this up), you will become a HRO for failing to provide a specimen of breath.
Hopefully, you will not be looking at a ban of 36 months, but you will probably get banned for at least 18 months or more with a HRO medical to pass at the end.
As I have already mentioned, forget anything to do with prison.
CJ
I have only just realised that although you have escaped the 10/11 year trap of being a HRO (thanks to Pricey for clearing this up), you will become a HRO for failing to provide a specimen of breath.
Hopefully, you will not be looking at a ban of 36 months, but you will probably get banned for at least 18 months or more with a HRO medical to pass at the end.
As I have already mentioned, forget anything to do with prison.
CJ
Derekward
Member
Thankyou all very much
price1367
TTC Group
Well between CJ and myself, we have got there with full advice.
You are right, CJ, I didn’t make it clear in my post, especially to people not used to the terminology…..
2 convictions in 10 years makes you get a minimum 3 year ban, and the actual High Risk Offender label is attached by DVLA to identify people who will have to undertake a medical before getting their licence back,
So 2 convictions in 10 years leads to a SENTENCE of a minimum 3 year ban, but as a CONSEQUENCE of 2 convictions in 10 years, or failing to supply or blowing over 87 in breath (or equivalent) DVLA attach the label of High Risk Offender, leading to the need for a medical.
I have seen people complain that they were ‘told nothing about the need for a medical when they were at court’. and the reason for that is it is nothing to do with the court process, just a consequence of it when applying for your licence back.
Simple, isn’t it? (not)
You are right, CJ, I didn’t make it clear in my post, especially to people not used to the terminology…..
2 convictions in 10 years makes you get a minimum 3 year ban, and the actual High Risk Offender label is attached by DVLA to identify people who will have to undertake a medical before getting their licence back,
So 2 convictions in 10 years leads to a SENTENCE of a minimum 3 year ban, but as a CONSEQUENCE of 2 convictions in 10 years, or failing to supply or blowing over 87 in breath (or equivalent) DVLA attach the label of High Risk Offender, leading to the need for a medical.
I have seen people complain that they were ‘told nothing about the need for a medical when they were at court’. and the reason for that is it is nothing to do with the court process, just a consequence of it when applying for your licence back.
Simple, isn’t it? (not)
Derekward
Member
Sorry lol I’m struggling a little not as educated as you and CJ my 10 years was up in March 21 so this would put me back to a first offence with this new charge being bought up in October 2021 . But because of the nature of the charge this puts me in HRK which therefore leads into a ban of 3 years have I got that correct
price1367
TTC Group
No! You are a HRO according to DVLA, because you failed to supply, so have to have a medical.
BUT you are not going to get a 3 year to ban because you do not meet the court criteria for that because you do not have 2 convictions for drink driving in 10 years ( defined as from your first conviction in court to the date you were caught for the second offence.
Just understand that in your case HRO does NOT equal a mandatory 3 year ban
Derekward
Member
Hey guys with the court date coming up next week and me not having a soliciter can you give me advice on how to be on the day what to say etc I’m pleading guilty so will it be pretty straightforward etc
January
Established Member
There is a lot of good info on this site including what to expect on the day
Basically turn up early smart dress. Don’t drive as you will be banned immediately
Read through the posts re the procedure on the day, what to say, letter of remorse, mitigation , use of duty solicitor etc & don’t forget to ask for the driving course as that has to be asked for pre leaving court which gets your sentence reduced
Hey guys with the court date coming up next week and me not having a soliciter can you give me advice on how to be on the day what to say etc I’m pleading guilty so will it be pretty straightforward etc
Derekward
Member
Hi price 1 more question will the courts raise my first conviction even though it’s over 10 years ?
price1367
TTC Group
Not formally, but it can depend on the prosecutor.
Sometimes they look at your conviction sheet and say “no relevant convictions.” Which is true.
But sometimes they hand the conviction sheet in and say “you will see there are no relevant convictions”.
The magistrates will see the previous drink driving and because it is spent, they are supposed to disregard it, but they have seen it and it could influence the length of the ban they give………
Sometimes they look at your conviction sheet and say “no relevant convictions.” Which is true.
But sometimes they hand the conviction sheet in and say “you will see there are no relevant convictions”.
The magistrates will see the previous drink driving and because it is spent, they are supposed to disregard it, but they have seen it and it could influence the length of the ban they give………
Derekward
Member
Ah I get ya that’s where a soliciter would come in handy I guess . Thanks for all ur help how do you know all this stuff
price1367
TTC Group
Never had this myself, I was on the other side….. Police officer for 30 years, including 14 years as custody Sgt dealing with breath tests and giving evidence in court.
Plus 15 years of running Drink Drive Rehabilitation courses for convicted drink drivers to help then get their licence back early.
Enter code DRINKDRIVING10 during checkout for 10% off
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