CDT Test (Carbohydrate Deficient Transferrin)

Convicted Driver Insurance

Paulisme

Well-known member
Yes hi, more and more we are seeing the DVLA contacting GPs with regards to alcohol issues and I think the real issue here is DVLA are finding alcohol problems behind most drink drivers and if that was not enough they are discovering anxiety&depression issues, it wasn't so long ago that once classed dependant then you would be with the DVLA medical team for 3 years now it's shifted to six years, the DVLA system is constantly changing or moving the goal posts to make it harder for drink drivers or alcohol related drivers to be signed back on the road, nevertheless the DVLA CDT medical is there for persistent drinkers, problem drinkers and alcoholics who simply cannot go a day without a drink, and therefore a refusal will follow but just to add as a nation drink plays a huge part of normal life for many and us Brits drink far to much anyway and it's common sense that DVLA are well aware of this prompting investigation if you are unfortunate enough to be in the DVLA medical process......and if you answer no to all questions and your CDT is low mine was 0.8 (as I did) they are more inclined to investigate because the people who answer no are most likely to have alcohol issues like I did .....

Hiya Honestman, many thanks again for your reply....

Can you show me where it states 6 years, do you mean i have to take blood samples so many times a year proving i have had not one drop of alcohol over a 6 year period?

I have just been on the phone with my doctor, he states that in 2014, some doc or other has stated dependency, in addition to 2005. also was treated in 2018 with whats an anti craving drug called acamprosate

so basically i will be seen as having dependency on alcohol, so they (DVLA) will make me wait a year before i can prove i can get behind a wheel again then? Or would they give me a temp licence and prove i can keep it, then this in your statement would be testing me for 6 years?? Or after the 12 months give me a licence and then keep doing the same testing for a 6 year term?

I'm not going to lie on that questionaire btw, i want to be honest on it, so many on this forum state put "no" to everything, i don't think that's right personally if someone has had problems with alchol in their past


many thanks

Paul

P.S. how's it going for you now, are you going through it with the DVLA etc? Where are you up to with it all?
 

Honestman

Well-known member
Hi again, so if you are classed as alcohol dependant then, once DVLA are notified through your GP by the way of medical report DD2 then a refusal will follow stating: as a result of your alcohol dependence we will only accept an application from you when you can provide 12 months of medical evidence, all this means then will be regular LFT checks, a last alcoholic drink dated with your GP( this is when your new medical licence will start from) another completed DD2 showing your drinking is under control( in your case no alcohol ever again) and possibly a no of DVLA medicals, I attended 4, so fundamentally then you cannot drive until all the medical evidence is gathered along with your GPs support over the course of a year and submitted to them for investIgation. DVLA have dependency levels that they catergorize alcohol dependence in, so for example severe to mild dependance and depending on your circumstances the longest DVLA can keep you on a medical restricted licence is six years, as they feel if there has been no relapse during this six year period then the offender is not likely too, however according to your dependency level a 3 year licence could be issued, once a period review licence (temp licence) has been issued then it's up to the licence holder to protect that licence by submitting 2 LFT over the course of the year again coupled with your GPs support to secure your next licence,along with another DVLA CDT medical, and the process starts again, for me personally my licence was revoked for telling a GP I drank 30 units of alcohol per week, on investigation DVLA found alcohol dependence relating back to 2006 which I knew nothing about, ( no treatment) I spent the next 14 months fighting DVLA to do what I had to do to get my licence back, submitted 12 months of medical evidence ( without this they won't touch you) attended 4 DVLA medicals with three CDT readings of 0.9/0.8/0.7 the first medical was obsolete and a load of trips to my GP to support my licence application, was also investigated for anxiety and medication I am currently taking, for this they usually send out an medical report M1 for your GP to complete, just for you to be aware when the DVLA write out to your GPs they usually send form DD2/M2 and either of these forms usually carry a refusal if you have NOT been to see your GP .......these forms then carry all alcohol questions relating to the licence holder, for your own interesting read you can google DVLA alcohol&drug minutes where you can pick up lots of information and changes to the DVLA system that are trying to be put forward, and of course any changes then DVLA do not notify any driver, during my time on this forum I have helped quite a few people needless to say and enjoy helping where i can because the simply fact is DVLA will not help you or give you this information and keep,you guessing along the way, I have seen many temp licence holder been revoked further down the line for admitting to a small drink and thus say they have to prove 12 months sobriety all over again sooo heartbreaking, so do follow the advice on the forum and answer honestly on your questionarre and I know this is hard but do take it from someone who's been there and by lying they just keep refusing until you tell the truth, that's why I was 14 months I tried every trick in the book to no avail until I went to see my GP and went through the truth of my medical history , and on a lighter note for those who have no alcohol medical history then you need not worry.... simply because there's nothing there to report.....
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Hi again, so if you are classed as alcohol dependant then, once DVLA are notified through your GP by the way of medical report DD2 then a refusal will follow stating: as a result of your alcohol dependence we will only accept an application from you when you can provide 12 months of medical evidence, all this means then will be regular LFT checks, a last alcoholic drink dated with your GP( this is when your new medical licence will start from) another completed DD2 showing your drinking is under control( in your case no alcohol ever again) and possibly a no of DVLA medicals, I attended 4, so fundamentally then you cannot drive until all the medical evidence is gathered along with your GPs support over the course of a year and submitted to them for investIgation. DVLA have dependency levels that they catergorize alcohol dependence in, so for example severe to mild dependance and depending on your circumstances the longest DVLA can keep you on a medical restricted licence is six years, as they feel if there has been no relapse during this six year period then the offender is not likely too, however according to your dependency level a 3 year licence could be issued, once a period review licence (temp licence) has been issued then it's up to the licence holder to protect that licence by submitting 2 LFT over the course of the year again coupled with your GPs support to secure your next licence,along with another DVLA CDT medical, and the process starts again, for me personally my licence was revoked for telling a GP I drank 30 units of alcohol per week, on investigation DVLA found alcohol dependence relating back to 2006 which I knew nothing about, ( no treatment) I spent the next 14 months fighting DVLA to do what I had to do to get my licence back, submitted 12 months of medical evidence ( without this they won't touch you) attended 4 DVLA medicals with three CDT readings of 0.9/0.8/0.7 the first medical was obsolete and a load of trips to my GP to support my licence application, was also investigated for anxiety and medication I am currently taking, for this they usually send out an medical report M1 for your GP to complete, just for you to be aware when the DVLA write out to your GPs they usually send form DD2/M2 and either of these forms usually carry a refusal if you have NOT been to see your GP .......these forms then carry all alcohol questions relating to the licence holder, for your own interesting read you can google DVLA alcohol&drug minutes where you can pick up lots of information and changes to the DVLA system that are trying to be put forward, and of course any changes then DVLA do not notify any driver, during my time on this forum I have helped quite a few people needless to say and enjoy helping where i can because the simply fact is DVLA will not help you or give you this information and keep,you guessing along the way, I have seen many temp licence holder been revoked further down the line for admitting to a small drink and thus say they have to prove 12 months sobriety all over again sooo heartbreaking, so do follow the advice on the forum and answer honestly on your questionarre and I know this is hard but do take it from someone who's been there and by lying they just keep refusing until you tell the truth, that's why I was 14 months I tried every trick in the book to no avail until I went to see my GP and went through the truth of my medical history , and on a lighter note for those who have no alcohol medical history then you need not worry.... simply because there's nothing there to report.....


Many thanks for your reply again Honestman, so basically i'm going to be off the road again for 12 months from a date were i get 4 LFTs (the docs are basically shut now due to the covid-19 hoax imo)... I told all the doctors that i'm not dependent on alcohol, i was adamant that i was a binge drinker, they thought diffrently of course, professionals a? The ironic thing is everytime i went, everytime i got no help, it took coming to Scotland and asking there (i lived in England all my life) now live in Scotland.

I wish i never talked to the doctors, they have never been much use for me anyway on anything....

So basically all HROs are not even taken at CDT value at all and no matter what they put on their questionaire, they (the DVLA) always write to the GP of said HRO....

So basically i'm waiting for the docs to open and ask for a LFT... Then do i state I have packed in drinking from that date then?

Also is this 3 year temp license a rolling one, if i get you right, so i have to keep getting them and do 2 LFT a year for the rest of my unnatural life to keep said license? Or is that after the 3 year license and i have to do that for the rest of my life? e.g. "once a period review licence (temp licence) has been issued then it's up to the licence holder to protect that licence by submitting 2 LFT over the course of the year again coupled with your GPs support to secure your next licence,along with another DVLA CDT medical, and the process starts again"

so this is a period review licence (temp licence), for like ever, so the 3 year if at that level is so they keep looking at you more intently (under the microscope) .. then if pleased with you, give you that period review 2 LFT a year licence... So if you wanted you could still drink and still keep your licence in effect, so how is that not unsafe if they believed you were a risk?

So at best all HROs are put on 3 year watch, then onto period reivew licence?

"my licence was revoked for telling a GP I drank 30 units of alcohol per week, on investigation DVLA found alcohol dependence relating back to 2006 which I knew nothing about, ( no treatment)"

so sad they can do this, notice the docs never inform you of what they put or the implications for the future, they're state snoops if anything these days, not for just alcohol reasons btw

Once again thanks for your help, i take you you are now drining right?

Cheers

Paul

P.S. with google what you said, many thanks
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Hi again, so if you are classed as alcohol dependant then, once DVLA are notified through your GP by the way of medical report DD2 then a refusal will follow stating: as a result of your alcohol dependence we will only accept an application from you when you can provide 12 months of medical evidence, all this means then will be regular LFT checks, a last alcoholic drink dated with your GP( this is when your new medical licence will start from) another completed DD2 showing your drinking is under control( in your case no alcohol ever again) and possibly a no of DVLA medicals, I attended 4, so fundamentally then you cannot drive until all the medical evidence is gathered along with your GPs support over the course of a year and submitted to them for investIgation. DVLA have dependency levels that they catergorize alcohol dependence in, so for example severe to mild dependance and depending on your circumstances the longest DVLA can keep you on a medical restricted licence is six years, as they feel if there has been no relapse during this six year period then the offender is not likely too, however according to your dependency level a 3 year licence could be issued, once a period review licence (temp licence) has been issued then it's up to the licence holder to protect that licence by submitting 2 LFT over the course of the year again coupled with your GPs support to secure your next licence,along with another DVLA CDT medical, and the process starts again, for me personally my licence was revoked for telling a GP I drank 30 units of alcohol per week, on investigation DVLA found alcohol dependence relating back to 2006 which I knew nothing about, ( no treatment) I spent the next 14 months fighting DVLA to do what I had to do to get my licence back, submitted 12 months of medical evidence ( without this they won't touch you) attended 4 DVLA medicals with three CDT readings of 0.9/0.8/0.7 the first medical was obsolete and a load of trips to my GP to support my licence application, was also investigated for anxiety and medication I am currently taking, for this they usually send out an medical report M1 for your GP to complete, just for you to be aware when the DVLA write out to your GPs they usually send form DD2/M2 and either of these forms usually carry a refusal if you have NOT been to see your GP .......these forms then carry all alcohol questions relating to the licence holder, for your own interesting read you can google DVLA alcohol&drug minutes where you can pick up lots of information and changes to the DVLA system that are trying to be put forward, and of course any changes then DVLA do not notify any driver, during my time on this forum I have helped quite a few people needless to say and enjoy helping where i can because the simply fact is DVLA will not help you or give you this information and keep,you guessing along the way, I have seen many temp licence holder been revoked further down the line for admitting to a small drink and thus say they have to prove 12 months sobriety all over again sooo heartbreaking, so do follow the advice on the forum and answer honestly on your questionarre and I know this is hard but do take it from someone who's been there and by lying they just keep refusing until you tell the truth, that's why I was 14 months I tried every trick in the book to no avail until I went to see my GP and went through the truth of my medical history , and on a lighter note for those who have no alcohol medical history then you need not worry.... simply because there's nothing there to report.....


P.P.S what answer did you give to the questionaire? did you answer yes to any of them?
 

Honestman

Well-known member
Yes on confirmation of your alcohol dependence by form of letter from DVLA then you can start gathering your medical evidence, your last alcoholic drink date is important to be registered with your GP, as potentialy this is when your period review licence will start from, do check with your GP for LFT although covid is present because I had to supply one in May and successfully did, told my GP its support and medical evidence for my next licence and will be submitting another LFT in October, so if you are a HRO DVLA will automatically write out to your GP regardless of a low CDT and what they are finding is that there is some underlying alcohol issues that caused them to drink drive in the beginning, usually for all alcohol dependence drivers (and according to your age the older you are the worse it is) then a 1 year period review licence is issued until your next medical takes place, and then another 1 year licence is granted upto a total of six years, if you are lucky enough to have a 3/5 year licence issued then LFTs are neccessary to show your medical evidence and that you are conforming to the licence conditions and I like to think of it as a guaranteed next licence because you have solid medical evidence and your GPs support to,support your total abstination, the date you choose is up to you as long as it's documented with your GP because when DVLA write out to your GP with form DD2 then your GP can correctly fill this form in and stating drinking under control/ abstinate where as now when the DD2 goes out to your GP the last known history he has is alcohol dependence resulting in a refusal, not all HROs will have this problem the problem will only become complicated if the driver has a known medical history documented with the GP, it doesn't nessacery have to be drink related it could be mental health issues or physical disabilities, so generally I wouldn't advise drinking behind Dvlas back for instance you could end up,in A&E through drink and this then would be reported to DVLA next time round prompting another refusal, yes on my last medical I admitted to I have to cut my drinking down, my liver function was raised to 170 normal is 50/70 it took 3 months for my liver to repair and was issued a licence on a score of 60 I had my last alcoholic drink date recorded and many more questions which tallied up to my GPs report and then my period review licence was issued only car/motorcycle I also have HGV but cannot reapply for 3 years as you have to be abstinate for 3 years, and finally when my licence was issued you can request a freedom of information for which DVLA sent me a 125 page report regarding all information between them and my doctors reports which you usually don't get access to
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Hi again, so if you are classed as alcohol dependant then, once DVLA are notified through your GP by the way of medical report DD2 then a refusal will follow stating: as a result of your alcohol dependence we will only accept an application from you when you can provide 12 months of medical evidence, all this means then will be regular LFT checks, a last alcoholic drink dated with your GP( this is when your new medical licence will start from) another completed DD2 showing your drinking is under control( in your case no alcohol ever again) and possibly a no of DVLA medicals, I attended 4, so fundamentally then you cannot drive until all the medical evidence is gathered along with your GPs support over the course of a year and submitted to them for investIgation. DVLA have dependency levels that they catergorize alcohol dependence in, so for example severe to mild dependance and depending on your circumstances the longest DVLA can keep you on a medical restricted licence is six years, as they feel if there has been no relapse during this six year period then the offender is not likely too, however according to your dependency level a 3 year licence could be issued, once a period review licence (temp licence) has been issued then it's up to the licence holder to protect that licence by submitting 2 LFT over the course of the year again coupled with your GPs support to secure your next licence,along with another DVLA CDT medical, and the process starts again, for me personally my licence was revoked for telling a GP I drank 30 units of alcohol per week, on investigation DVLA found alcohol dependence relating back to 2006 which I knew nothing about, ( no treatment) I spent the next 14 months fighting DVLA to do what I had to do to get my licence back, submitted 12 months of medical evidence ( without this they won't touch you) attended 4 DVLA medicals with three CDT readings of 0.9/0.8/0.7 the first medical was obsolete and a load of trips to my GP to support my licence application, was also investigated for anxiety and medication I am currently taking, for this they usually send out an medical report M1 for your GP to complete, just for you to be aware when the DVLA write out to your GPs they usually send form DD2/M2 and either of these forms usually carry a refusal if you have NOT been to see your GP .......these forms then carry all alcohol questions relating to the licence holder, for your own interesting read you can google DVLA alcohol&drug minutes where you can pick up lots of information and changes to the DVLA system that are trying to be put forward, and of course any changes then DVLA do not notify any driver, during my time on this forum I have helped quite a few people needless to say and enjoy helping where i can because the simply fact is DVLA will not help you or give you this information and keep,you guessing along the way, I have seen many temp licence holder been revoked further down the line for admitting to a small drink and thus say they have to prove 12 months sobriety all over again sooo heartbreaking, so do follow the advice on the forum and answer honestly on your questionarre and I know this is hard but do take it from someone who's been there and by lying they just keep refusing until you tell the truth, that's why I was 14 months I tried every trick in the book to no avail until I went to see my GP and went through the truth of my medical history , and on a lighter note for those who have no alcohol medical history then you need not worry.... simply because there's nothing there to report.....


So basically not matter when, in your case it was 2006, it can not only be 6 years back, but say 20 years...Even though they ask you on your questionarie 6 year ago

Thanks for explaining your plight btw, very informative

Paul
 

Honestman

Well-known member
Yes mate, no matter how long ago if you've been classed as alcohol dependant unfortunately it's for life and they will treat you accordingly.....
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Yes mate, no matter how long ago if you've been classed as alcohol dependant unfortunately it's for life and they will treat you accordingly.....


Now i'm going to chance it and lie becasue of that.... that's a disgrace they should do that, i was never going to lie, now i am, that's disgussing of them........... going to put no to everything, put no to allowing to write to my doctor too
 

price1367

TTC Group
If you say you refuse permission to contact your doctor, and your CDT is in any way elevated then they will simply refuse to issue you with a licence. As Honestman said, the way they have lumped down on testing HRO’s, they may refuse your licence no matter what the CDT result is if you refuse to have your medical records checked.
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
If you say you refuse permission to contact your doctor, and your CDT is in any way elevated then they will simply refuse to issue you with a licence. As Honestman said, the way they have lumped down on testing HRO’s, they may refuse your licence no matter what the CDT result is if you refuse to have your medical records checked.
I was not going to lie at all, but now i am, my CDT will be very low, will below the green traffic light system
 

Honestman

Well-known member
120, Don't know if that's really high or not
Bloody hell mate that's excessively high, that can put you in the prison sentence catergory, but don't worry if this is your first offence this is very unlikely to happen, however DVLA will without a doubt do investigation on you
Drink Driving Penalty
Details of offence as provided by you:
  • Specimen Type: breath
  • Alcohol Level: between 120 and 150+
  • No previous drink driving related convictions within the proceeding 10 years
  • You have not been disqualified two or more times for 56 days or more within the proceeding 3 years
Based on the information you provided above, upon conviction of driving with excess alcohol, Magistrates' sentencing guidelines suggest:
  • A driving disqualification of 29 - 36 months (if immediate custodial sentence imposed, disqualification will be extended); and
  • A High level community order or up to 26 weeks custody
Classed as High Risk Offender
Because the level of alcohol in your system exceeded 87.5 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath, or 200 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of blood, or 267.5 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine you will be classed as a high risk offender.

High risk offenders are required to take and pass a DVLA Medical before their driving licence will be returned to them upon expiration of their driving driving disqualification.
Drink Driving Rehabilitation Course
All courts usually offer first time offenders the opportunity to take the drink driving rehabilitation course. A court may allow an offender to take the course a second time where there is a good reason to do so. Offenders will not usually be offered a chance to take the course for a third time. Completing the course can reduce any disqualification period imposed by up to 25%.
Enter New Information
 

price1367

TTC Group
Paul,
With a reading of 120, they are almost certain to insist on speaking to your GP. No consent - no licence back.
consent given - find you have been lying on the form no licence back.
You want your licence back but have done nothing to get in a position where you should have a licence.

I have dealt with many people on drink drive courses where the shock of being caught well over the limit shamed them into addressing their alcohol problems and they have been much better for the experience as it was the wake up call they needed to take action.

You may not like the idea of not driving, but you blew 3.5 times the legal limit, on a second offence, having sought help for your drinking in the past, then weeks before your medical you are drinking 10 bottles of wine in one day. You have a big drink problem. Please sort it out before you get back on the road where you will be a danger to others.
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Paul,
With a reading of 120, they are almost certain to insist on speaking to your GP. No consent - no licence back.
consent given - find you have been lying on the form no licence back.
You want your licence back but have done nothing to get in a position where you should have a licence.

I have dealt with many people on drink drive courses where the shock of being caught well over the limit shamed them into addressing their alcohol problems and they have been much better for the experience as it was the wake up call they needed to take action.

You may not like the idea of not driving, but you blew 3.5 times the legal limit, on a second offence, having sought help for your drinking in the past, then weeks before your medical you are drinking 10 bottles of wine in one day. You have a big drink problem. Please sort it out before you get back on the road where you will be a danger to others.
sorry it was over the weekend , the 10, but it's still excessive drinking i agree.... I did say one day, but it was two... but that's nither here or there really is it....

I don't think getting my blood taken for the rest of my life and calling me an Alcoholic for life is something i want to be labeled as.... I know as the story goes with the cult AA (none motor vehilce) "once an alky, always an alky) .. i don't believe that

As for seeking help, which i only got 16years later, yet the docs put me down as dependent in 2004, yeah, what does that say about these professional then?

Now i drink or far less than i did... i would not get into a car again drunk, tippsy or other wise...... i work in an explosive atmosphere and we get random drug test all the time....

Thanks for what i see a great reply btw

Paul
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Bloody hell mate that's excessively high, that can put you in the prison sentence catergory, but don't worry if this is your first offence this is very unlikely to happen, however DVLA will without a doubt do investigation on you
Drink Driving Penalty
Details of offence as provided by you:
  • Specimen Type: breath
  • Alcohol Level: between 120 and 150+
  • No previous drink driving related convictions within the proceeding 10 years
  • You have not been disqualified two or more times for 56 days or more within the proceeding 3 years
Based on the information you provided above, upon conviction of driving with excess alcohol, Magistrates' sentencing guidelines suggest:
  • A driving disqualification of 29 - 36 months (if immediate custodial sentence imposed, disqualification will be extended); and
  • A High level community order or up to 26 weeks custody
Classed as High Risk Offender
Because the level of alcohol in your system exceeded 87.5 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath, or 200 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of blood, or 267.5 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine you will be classed as a high risk offender.

High risk offenders are required to take and pass a DVLA Medical before their driving licence will be returned to them upon expiration of their driving driving disqualification.
Drink Driving Rehabilitation Course
All courts usually offer first time offenders the opportunity to take the drink driving rehabilitation course. A court may allow an offender to take the course a second time where there is a good reason to do so. Offenders will not usually be offered a chance to take the course for a third time. Completing the course can reduce any disqualification period imposed by up to 25%.
Enter New Information


I have ben caught twice, it was just under 10 years...

Yes, so was very lucky then not to go to prison
 

Paulisme

Well-known member
Paul,
With a reading of 120, they are almost certain to insist on speaking to your GP. No consent - no licence back.
consent given - find you have been lying on the form no licence back.
You want your licence back but have done nothing to get in a position where you should have a licence.

I have dealt with many people on drink drive courses where the shock of being caught well over the limit shamed them into addressing their alcohol problems and they have been much better for the experience as it was the wake up call they needed to take action.

You may not like the idea of not driving, but you blew 3.5 times the legal limit, on a second offence, having sought help for your drinking in the past, then weeks before your medical you are drinking 10 bottles of wine in one day. You have a big drink problem. Please sort it out before you get back on the road where you will be a danger to others.


so let's see 87.5 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath

mine 120 so that's not 3.5 over is it, or am i doing that wrong?
 

BigTom

Well-known member
so let's see 87.5 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath

mine 120 so that's not 3.5 over is it, or am i doing that wrong?
No mate, 87.5 is 2 1/2 times the limit (limit is 35 - 87.5 is the level you are classed as HRO). At 120 you are nearly 3 1/2 times limit. The DVLA are pretty much definitely going to want your Dr to at least fill in a questionnaire, refusing permission will see them decline you until you can prove you are not using alcohol. The only way to do this is via a Dr on a regular basis, so you are in a never ending circle!

You Say " Now i drink or far less than i did... i would not get into a car again drunk, tippsy or other wise...... ", unfortunately drinking at those types of level cloud your judgement, and lower your inhibitions. You might not intend to get in the car, but after 5 bottles of wine 1 night when you can't get a taxi and it is raining..... mmmm?!?!?
 

price1367

TTC Group
so let's see 87.5 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath

mine 120 so that's not 3.5 over is it, or am i doing that wrong?
yes, doing it wrong!
The legal limit is 35 in breath,
87.5 is the threshold for being a High Risk Offender at 2.5 times the legal limit.

To be precise, 3.5 times the legal limit is 122.5 ....... so I was exaggerating a tiny bit!
 
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