Cdt returns to normal after 2-4 wks (abstinence)

#1
I have seen a few ppl asking how long it takes for CDT to return to normal so have posted biomarkers on the table below.


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Marker [/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Time to return to normal limits[/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Type of drinking characterized[/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Comments[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Gamma–glutamyltransferase[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]2–6 weeks of abstinence[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]∼ 70 drinks/wk for several weeks[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: th2"]Aspartate aminotransferase[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]7 days, but considerable variability in declines with abstinence[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Alanine aminotransferase[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives
Less sensitive than aspartate aminotransferase
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: th2"]Macrocytic volume[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown but half–life ∼ 40 days [/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Slow return to normal limits even with abstinence[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Carbohydrate–deficient transferrin[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]2–4 weeks of abstinence[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]60+ g/d for at least 2 weeks[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Rare false positives
Good indicator of relapse
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Mclanelli

Well-known member
#2
I have seen a few ppl asking how long it takes for CDT to return to normal so have posted biomarkers on the table below.


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Marker
[/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Time to return to normal limits
[/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Type of drinking characterized
[/TH]
[TH="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Comments
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Gamma–glutamyltransferase
[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]2–6 weeks of abstinence
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]∼ 70 drinks/wk for several weeks
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: th2"]Aspartate aminotransferase
[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]7 days, but considerable variability in declines with abstinence
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Alanine aminotransferase
[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Many sources of false positives
Less sensitive than aspartate aminotransferase

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: th2"]Macrocytic volume
[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown but half–life ∼ 40 days
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Unknown, but heavy
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Slow return to normal limits even with abstinence
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gray"]
[TH="class: th2"]Carbohydrate–deficient transferrin
[/TH]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]2–4 weeks of abstinence
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]60+ g/d for at least 2 weeks
[/TD]
[TD="class: wysiwyg_cms_table"]Rare false positives
Good indicator of relapse

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The problem with this is the source. Its not accurate. There are websites, with actual doctors notes from all over Europe and the US, who state that a period of 12 weeks is required for CDT levels to become normal after periods of drinking.

You have two choices regarding this issue. You can be safe and take the advice of medical professionals like your own GP, or professional people from organisations like TTC (Drink Awareness Course) Or you can convince yourself that everything will be okay with literature like this. It won't be okay. And if you fail all the people who said it only takes four weeks will go missing. They have nothing to lose. People have failed the DVLA medical on their CDT score for only abstaining for similar periods to the ones highlighted above. Fact.

M
 
#3
The problem with this is the source. Its not accurate. There are websites, with actual doctors notes from all over Europe and the US, who state that a period of 12 weeks is required for CDT levels to become normal after periods of drinking.

You have two choices regarding this issue. You can be safe and take the advice of medical professionals like your own GP, or professional people from organisations like TTC (Drink Awareness Course) Or you can convince yourself that everything will be okay with literature like this. It won't be okay. And if you fail all the people who said it only takes four weeks will go missing. They have nothing to lose. People have failed the DVLA medical on their CDT score for only abstaining for similar periods to the ones highlighted above. Fact.

M
Actually my research was taken from thw NIAAA/NIH.. and involved studies by some of the worlds experts on biomarkers (a list that helped compile the info is below). And a bit of info on the NIAAA.

Sorry but you carry on listening to your G.P who probably has no actual specialist expertise on the subject of CDT or other biomarkers.

Me personally, ive abstained 8 weeks and will be 10 by the time i have an appointment along with a good diet and pretty intensive physical (cardiovascular) training program.. not for the benefit of a CDT test but a general health kick/change of lifestyle.

People who have NEVER drunk alcohol can have increased CDT just as a result of smoking tobacco so that would explain a few people failing the test after short periods of abstinence.. have a read.. educate yourself!
[h=2][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John P. Allen, Ph.D., M.P.A.,* Pekka Sillanaukee, Ph.D.,† Nuria Strid, Ph.D.,‡ and Raye Z. Litten, Ph.D.§[/FONT][/h] [h=3][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Scientific Consultant to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Bethesda, MD
† Tampere University Hospital, Research Unit and Tampere University, Medical School, Tampere, Finland
‡ NS Associates, Stentorp, Sweden
§ Chief, Treatment Research Branch, Division of Clinical and Prevention Research, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Bethesda, MD
[/FONT][/h]
[h=1]About NIAAA[/h]The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) is one of the 27 institutes and centers that comprise the National Institutes of Health (NIH). NIAAA supports and conducts research on the impact of alcohol use on human health and well-being. It is the largest funder of alcohol research in the world.

NIAAA leads the national effort to reduce alcohol-related problems by:

  • Conducting and supporting alcohol-related research in a wide range of scientific areas including genetics, neuroscience, epidemiology, prevention, and treatment.
  • Coordinating and collaborating with other research institutes and federal programs on alcohol-related issues.
  • Collaborating with international, national, state, and local institutions, organizations, agencies, and programs engaged in alcohol-related work.
  • Translating and disseminating research findings to health care providers, researchers, policymakers, and the public.
Through both research within NIAAA, and by funding grants at institutions worldwide, NIAAA aims to:

  • Better understand the health risks and benefits of consuming alcohol, as well as why it can cause addiction.
  • Reveal the biological and socio-cultural origins of why people respond to alcohol differently.
  • Remove the stigma associated with alcohol problems.
  • Develop effective prevention and treatment strategies that address the physical, behavioral, and social risks that result from both excessive drinking, and underage alcohol consumption.
NIAAA-funded discoveries have important implications for improving the health and well-being of all people.
Learn more about the NIAAA:

 
#4
There is some merit in both of the above views.
the period needed for CDT to return to 'normal' levels varies according to the level it has elevated to.
if there has been heavy drinking for some time, then 12 weeks abstenance may well be necessary.
In the chart quoted by Chatjacker, where 2- 4 weeks is quoted, you will see that the "type of drink characterised" is quoted as 60g per day for 2 plus weeks. This is clearly an Americal reference, where they prefer to quote a unit as being 8g of alcohol, whereas we quote it as 10ml. Therefore they indicated 2 - 4 weeks abstenance for someone drinking 7 1/2 units of alcohol per day for a fortnight....... 2 1/2 pints of Stella or 3 X 250ml glasses of wine at 10% abv.
I have just returned from 2 weeks holiday and probably managed that.....! , but it is not my regular habit.
many people on here quote drinking far in excess of that amount, not just on holiday but on a week after week basis, sometimes for years. In those cases, 2-4 weeks will not be nearly enough for CDT levels to normalise. I saw a half life quoted for CDT at 20 days, I have seen research that quotes more like 8-15 days so even the experts disagree. Which version is correct would have a big impact on the time taken for normalisation.
So you have to ask yourself: "do I want to do as little as possible and hope I pass the medical?...... Or do I want to be well prepared and confident of passing?"
 

Mclanelli

Well-known member
#5
Actually my research was taken from thw NIAAA/NIH.. and involved studies by some of the worlds experts on biomarkers (a list that helped compile the info is below). And a bit of info on the NIAAA.

Sorry but you carry on listening to your G.P who probably has no actual specialist expertise on the subject of CDT or other biomarkers.

Me personally, ive abstained 8 weeks and will be 10 by the time i have an appointment along with a good diet and pretty intensive physical (cardiovascular) training program.. not for the benefit of a CDT test but a general health kick/change of lifestyle.

People who have NEVER drunk alcohol can have increased CDT just as a result of smoking tobacco so that would explain a few people failing the test after short periods of abstinence.. have a read.. educate yourself!
John P. Allen, Ph.D., M.P.A.,* Pekka Sillanaukee, Ph.D.,† Nuria Strid, Ph.D.,‡ and Raye Z. Litten, Ph.D.§

*Scientific Consultant to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Bethesda, MD
† Tampere University Hospital, Research Unit and Tampere University, Medical School, Tampere, Finland
‡ NS Associates, Stentorp, Sweden
§ Chief, Treatment Research Branch, Division of Clinical and Prevention Research, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Bethesda, MD



About NIAAA

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) is one of the 27 institutes and centers that comprise the National Institutes of Health (NIH). NIAAA supports and conducts research on the impact of alcohol use on human health and well-being. It is the largest funder of alcohol research in the world.

NIAAA leads the national effort to reduce alcohol-related problems by:

  • Conducting and supporting alcohol-related research in a wide range of scientific areas including genetics, neuroscience, epidemiology, prevention, and treatment.
  • Coordinating and collaborating with other research institutes and federal programs on alcohol-related issues.
  • Collaborating with international, national, state, and local institutions, organizations, agencies, and programs engaged in alcohol-related work.
  • Translating and disseminating research findings to health care providers, researchers, policymakers, and the public.
Through both research within NIAAA, and by funding grants at institutions worldwide, NIAAA aims to:

  • Better understand the health risks and benefits of consuming alcohol, as well as why it can cause addiction.
  • Reveal the biological and socio-cultural origins of why people respond to alcohol differently.
  • Remove the stigma associated with alcohol problems.
  • Develop effective prevention and treatment strategies that address the physical, behavioral, and social risks that result from both excessive drinking, and underage alcohol consumption.
NIAAA-funded discoveries have important implications for improving the health and well-being of all people.
Learn more about the NIAAA:

"Actually my research was taken from thw NIAAA/NIH.. and involved studies by some of the worlds experts on biomarkers (a list that helped compile the info is below). And a bit of info on the NIAAA"

Your research? You mean the information which you have cut and pasted from a random internet source. Yes, it has merit, I have viewed the same information previously. My point was that there are equally credible sources that have opposite views. As such, it leaves people with a dilemma, in which case the best advice would be to go with the longer period of abstinence of all those suggested.


"Sorry but you carry on listening to your G.P who probably has no actual specialist expertise on the subject of CDT or other biomarkers"

I have never spoken to a GP regarding the subject of CDT, as I have never had cause to do so. I merely pointed out that along with the various sources of information available, they are an alternative outlet; who will almost certainly err on the side of caution when giving out advice on periods of abstinence. Although a GP would not claim to be a specialist on the subject of CDT and abstinence periods, I do feel that is safe to assume that they do have a far better understanding in "general" terms as a "practitioner" (GP) than what you do, when it comes to this subject.

"People who have NEVER drunk alcohol can have increased CDT just as a result of smoking tobacco so that would explain a few people failing the test after short periods of abstinence.. have a read.. educate yourself"


This is nonsense. CDT levels and in particular Transferrin are affected by raised ethanol levels. People do not fail this test due to smoking. Fact.

I think you should maybe check the credibility of some the websites which you have been visiting; and before offering condescending advice on self education, you should maybe first pause to remember why it is that you are in your current situation.

Regards
M
 
#6
"Actually my research was taken from thw NIAAA/NIH.. and involved studies by some of the worlds experts on biomarkers (a list that helped compile the info is below). And a bit of info on the NIAAA"

Your research? You mean the information which you have cut and pasted from a random internet source. Yes, it has merit, I have viewed the same information previously. My point was that there are equally credible sources that have opposite views. As such, it leaves people with a dilemma, in which case the best advice would be to go with the longer period of abstinence of all those suggested.


"Sorry but you carry on listening to your G.P who probably has no actual specialist expertise on the subject of CDT or other biomarkers"

I have never spoken to a GP regarding the subject of CDT, as I have never had cause to do so. I merely pointed out that along with the various sources of information available, they are an alternative outlet; who will almost certainly err on the side of caution when giving out advice on periods of abstinence. Although a GP would not claim to be a specialist on the subject of CDT and abstinence periods, I do feel that is safe to assume that they do have a far better understanding in "general" terms as a "practitioner" (GP) than what you do, when it comes to this subject.

"People who have NEVER drunk alcohol can have increased CDT just as a result of smoking tobacco so that would explain a few people failing the test after short periods of abstinence.. have a read.. educate yourself"


This is nonsense. CDT levels and in particular Transferrin are affected by raised ethanol levels. People do not fail this test due to smoking. Fact.

I think you should maybe check the credibility of some the websites which you have been visiting; and before offering condescending advice on self education, you should maybe first pause to remember why it is that you are in your current situation.

Regards
M
M when you tried to rubbish my info with your response you said... and I quote YOU directly "there are websites, with actual Doctors" lol.. so I can only assume that you have been visiting such sites to come to the conclusion that the timescale is 12 weeks??.. and you have provided no actual Doctors names or any names of the professional organisations that you are basing your 12 week timescale on. If you cared to look where I got my info from you would have seen that it was from the NIAAA who are the worlds LARGEST FUNDERS OF ALCOHOL RESEARCH IN THE WORLD.
Also you mentioned the U.S in your reply, well the NIAAA The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) is the lead agency for U.S. research on alcohol abuse, alcoholism, and other health and developmental effects of alcohol use. Although CDT testing actually came from Sweden I believe.

Also tobacco smoking is widely known to have an affect on CDT levels.. to quote THE U.S NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE AND THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH "Body mass index, variables associated with metabolic syndrome, and smoking had notable effects on the probability of an abnormal CDT result .".. But i suppose if you want to go down the "there are websites, with actual Doctors" route then dont let me stop you.

The fact is I can back up the info I have supplied with actual globally recognised professional and institutions so therefor wouldnt exactly say id been copy pasting from dodgy websites.. take the experts for example who compiled the chart of biomarkers.. they are experts in this field and not your average g.p, website or staff at a drink driving course. I do not claim to be an expert myself I am merely very thorough when researching any subject and only use trusted, viable sources that have been backed up by experts.
In this case you are trying to imply that these people that I used info from (some of the worlds experts on alcohol biomarkers) are less informed than you are. Id be interested to see if your 12 week timescale actually had any biomarker experts behind them or if you have simply read bits from some of the "websites, with actual Doctors" you were talking about. And if you cant provide direct quotes from such individuals and organisations with specific and specialist alcohol biomarker expertise then why would post on this forum that you know the period to be 12 weeks. While you are frantically googling it do a bit more research on the affects smoking tobacco can have on CDT results, im sure you wont find it hard to get this info as it is pretty widely known to be a factor.
 
#7
I have used this forum over the last six months or so without posting anything of note. It has been a source of reassurance and comfort in a very stressful time. I only came across this thread because I was looking for the previous post I'd seen with the contact details for the lab at King's College and I'm only posting now because I feel there is a lot of varying information (no malice being intended I'm sure) about. Some that can frighten the life out of you and some that could seriously damage your chances of a speedy return to motoring.

My medical exam was on Monday 25th January at 0930hrs. My last day of alcohol consumption was Friday 1st January, finishing my last drink at approximately 1800hrs. I had 2 x 250ml of Sauvignon Blanc at 12.5%= 6.25 units. In the months leading up to this I had consumed approximately 9/10 units (750ml/a bottle) of similar strength wine a day, very rarely having a day off. I would have liked to put my medical off a little longer but I didn't know about the 6 week window. If I had I would have delayed my application by a week or so to get Christmas out of the way. During my 23 whole dry days I exercised everyday(I do this anyway), drank a mug of 1/2 squeezed lemon and 2 tspns of grated raw ginger root mixed with hot water (like a tea) every morning. I upped my daily water intake of 3 pints to approximately 6/7 pints and took milk thistle, turmeric and artichoke supplements and made sure my (normally fairly healthy (ignoring the wine)) diet was packed full of leafy green vegetables and fruit, especially apples. Basically if a food was seen to have liver supporting or body cleansing properties, I ate it.

I called DVLA today, with much trepidation, to get an update on my application and was informed that they had sent my licence out on Tuesday February 2nd. I asked for the CDT reading and was told that she didn't know what it was but 'it must have been low cos you've been sent a full 10 year licence'. Now I do realise that simply means I fell within the 'green traffic light' parameters but after reading some scary advice here, I was convinced that I would only achieve an 'amber'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that obviously the longer you abstain (or drink moderately if you want to chance it) the better but it is possible to pass the medical with 3-4 weeks abstinence, as my bone dry 23 days shows. As with all things biological/medical, everyBODY is literally different, and so many variables come into play. I intend to write to DVLA to get my actual results so I will update on this thread (unless someone can furnish me with the King's lab phone number) and anyone going forward into the medical minefield is welcome to contact me, if I can help or reassure in anyway, I would be very happy to do so.

Lastly, I would like to thank mostly everyone who regularly posts here (especially the poster called Price), without knowing it you have helped me and I'm sure many other 'silent participants' who like me, haven't had the confidence or have been too ashamed to post.
 

hewl

Well-known member
#8
M when you tried to rubbish my info with your response you said... and I quote YOU directly "there are websites, with actual Doctors" lol..
But, you havent quoted him. You have cut out most of what he said.

Just to clear up the confusion for you, what he said was this:

There are websites, with actual doctors notes from all over Europe and the US, who state that a period of 12 weeks is required for CDT levels to become normal after periods of drinking.
It is quite obvious M is referring to websites with Doctors notes not websites with actual Doctors.

Anyway, to add my two cents and cut a long story short, it is obvious to most (if not you) that abstaining for the longest recommended time rather than the shortest is going to increase the chances of passing a CDT test. Pretty simple really huh?
 
#9
But, you havent quoted him. You have cut out most of what he said.

Just to clear up the confusion for you, what he said was this:



It is quite obvious M is referring to websites with Doctors notes not websites with actual Doctors.

Anyway, to add my two cents and cut a long story short, it is obvious to most (if not you) that abstaining for the longest recommended time rather than the shortest is going to increase the chances of passing a CDT test. Pretty simple really huh?
Hewl i didnt use his whole quote but the point i was making is M rubbished the timescale I had provided by saying basically that I had been copy pasting from poor websites and getting the wrong facts.. but then admitted at the same time that he had been googling websites with Doctors notes, not scientists. Seemed a bit silly to try to rubbish my post by basically saying.. you have googled websites so you are wrong because i have also googled websites lol
Anyway, I wasnt recommending anyone abstain for 2-4 weeks but simply pointing out what the scientists with expertise in the subject and also the leading organisations say is the required timescale for CDT levels to return to normal after heavy drinking.
Its no good panicking people and filling them with dread (they are already probably stressed out as it is) by giving them a timescale that isnt actually based on any informed research or advice from biomarker experts. The fact that M isnt aware that smoking can also have an impact on CDT levels also made me question the source of M's 12 week timescale as thorough research would have made him aware of smoking having an effect on CDT scores.

In my opinion peoples attitudes and lifestyle need to change over a long period after a drink driving ban and 2-4 or even 12 weeks isnt really enough to change that. I have seen a lot of people on here and other forums that simply want to dry out at the last opportunity to pass the test and will then carry on (some immediately after the test, some even as a celebration of staying sober long enough to attempt the test) heavy drinking.
Some people will inevitably run the risk of getting caught drink driving again or run the risk of having an accident as a result of drinking because their lifestyle or attitudes have not changed. No biomarker test can test for the the possibility of an individual getting behind the wheel after drinking, but you can often tell when that chance is increased on these forums when people are trying to work out exact dates that they need to stop drinking just for the purpose of passing the test and not because they feel they should for the benefit of their own or other peoples health and safety.
 

Mclanelli

Well-known member
#10
I think people have worked out what "chatjacker"s real intentions are on this forum. The username says it all really. Why anybody would choose such a username on a site like this with the hope of being taken seriously, I don't know.

This individual has a serious attitude problem. You can see that from the pointless ramblings that follow any suggestion that his information may not be accurate. Miss-quotes and a morbid obsession of references to "googling" seem to feature heavily in this individuals poorly constructed grammar rants. Add to the mix the 1:30 am postings, and it is clear that this person is having difficulty filling the daytime hours with meaningful employment.

One can only wonder as to why the offers aren't flooding in for the self proclaimed "extensive researcher"

Not the sharpest tool in the box, but a tool none the less. You would hope that even the bluntest of instruments could be put to meaningful use throughout the day; sadly not, and much to our misfortune.

On a final technical note, and not one of personality disorders: Smoking will possibly increase a persons sensitivity to CDT, when and only when alcohol/ethanol is consumed. Even then, the sensitivity is so moderate that it is irrelevant. Smoking is not known to cause false positives with regards to the CDT test. Indeed, it would be illogical for the DVLA to have in place an alcohol measurement test that could be significantly influenced by smoking. If that was the case, then the DVLA would be inundated with successful appeals at Magistrate level by people who had failed the test; on the grounds that smoking had influenced their results. No such appeals have taken place, because smoking will have no effect on your final CDT percentage.

I bid you adieu.

M
 
#11
I think people have worked out what "chatjacker"s real intentions are on this forum. The username says it all really. Why anybody would choose such a username on a site like this with the hope of being taken seriously, I don't know.

This individual has a serious attitude problem. You can see that from the pointless ramblings that follow any suggestion that his information may not be accurate. Miss-quotes and a morbid obsession of references to "googling" seem to feature heavily in this individuals poorly constructed grammar rants. Add to the mix the 1:30 am postings, and it is clear that this person is having difficulty filling the daytime hours with meaningful employment.

One can only wonder as to why the offers aren't flooding in for the self proclaimed "extensive researcher"

Not the sharpest tool in the box, but a tool none the less. You would hope that even the bluntest of instruments could be put to meaningful use throughout the day; sadly not, and much to our misfortune.

On a final technical note, and not one of personality disorders: Smoking will possibly increase a persons sensitivity to CDT, when and only when alcohol/ethanol is consumed. Even then, the sensitivity is so moderate that it is irrelevant. Smoking is not known to cause false positives with regards to the CDT test. Indeed, it would be illogical for the DVLA to have in place an alcohol measurement test that could be significantly influenced by smoking. If that was the case, then the DVLA would be inundated with successful appeals at Magistrate level by people who had failed the test; on the grounds that smoking had influenced their results. No such appeals have taken place, because smoking will have no effect on your final CDT percentage.

I bid you adieu.

M
M, so you go onto my thread that states CDT timescales and claim its wrong because you have seen stuff on internet websites, and now you are complaining?! First of all if you have, as you said, seen info relating to alcohol biomarkers online then its safe to assume you have been busy on google. Right?
So attacking my info by claiming it has come from copy pasting on the internet is a bit hypocritical.
Secondly you claimed that smoking didnt have ANY affect on CDT biomarkers when I originally posted about it and i invited you to do more research and even told you where to get the info from...now suddenly you are quoting almost directly from the place i sent you to.. yet telling me I dont know what im am talking about.. You then print your massive U-turn in your comment above. Silly!

Next you decide that you will attempt to rubbish my backed up claims with some kind of playschool attack on my user name, the time of day or night I choose to post on here and the employment status that you plucked from the same place as your 12 week timescale. This assumption of my job status clearly demonstrates your willingness to just use any info you can cling onto regardless of any meaningful evidence to back up your claim. And your reference to my lazy grammar stinks of desperation and is anto attempt to reduce credibility to the science backed info I have provided.

The strange thing with you is you are arguing against the advice given by some of the worlds leading alcohol biomarker experts and organisations!!?? Why?? It really makes no sense. You come across as someone who craves lordship and adulation from ppl who are clearly lost for info and you get this by dishing out advice that you have absolutely nothing to back it up with.
I have invited you so supply links to alcohol biomarker scientists and specialist biomarker institutions but you refuse to, instead saying you dont have the time and they can do it for themselves.. they wouldnt be asking on here would they or else they would have already done it.
It seems the more evidence I produce tyhe more angry you get and resort to attempts at person whinges. Then claim that I have an attitude problem because I provided proper proof when you jumped on my thread to say I was wrong.

As you mentioned my employment and the time of day I choose to post at I should just point out that I am not 12 years old so am allowed on the internet unsupervised... even after midnight. And as for my employment, well I am an employer and run a very successful business even with my "poor grammar" and objectional user name. As for being a tool you do realise that you have in your other post claimed you have had some of your info from the DVLA themselves??.. they get given a result and have no expertise in biomarkers lol.. another silly statement.

Now lets draw a line under this. Either provide some solid evidence of the 12 week cdt biomarker scale, backed up by people who are specialist scientists or organisations in the field or dont bother attacking me personally or the info that I have provided with all the evidence needed from as high as source as you can get. But you wont and you have already looked im sure. Found nothing so decided on the comment you just made. c
You clearly have problems with me being up late so i posted this before the watershed. Just for you!
 

Mclanelli

Well-known member
#12
Phil, you don't have to justify yourself to me, or your employment status. No need to get stressed old boy.

Of course you have, of course you do, and of course you are.

No problem Phil. You're than man.


M
 
#13
..........
I have invited you so supply links to alcohol biomarker scientists and specialist biomarker institutions but you refuse to, instead saying you dont have the time and they can do it for themselves.. they wouldnt be asking on here would they or else they would have already done it.
.........
Now lets draw a line under this. Either provide some solid evidence of the 12 week cdt biomarker scale, backed up by people who are specialist scientists or organisations in the field or dont bother attacking me personally or the info that I have provided with all the evidence needed from as high as source as you can get. But you wont and you have already looked im sure. Found nothing so decided on the comment you just made. c
You clearly have problems with me being up late so i posted this before the watershed. Just for you!
This may help, I posted this just, on another thread:

Below is a quote on a project working with alcoholics where their CDT levels were monitored over a 12 week period, you will see that their levels reduced by 30%. This is good, but it does not say what their base level was. If it was 4.2%, then a 30% reduction would have taken their reading down to 2.95% - still enough to be a fail, even after 12 weeks. This reflects the extreme end of alcohol consumption, which will not apply to most people coming here, but it does show that to say that 2-4 weeks abstenance WILL reduce your CDT to acceptable limits is flawed.
The link to the quote is below and you will see that it was funded by an organisation that has been widely recommended by someone on this site...... The NIAAA !!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...261.x/abstract

quote:

Biological markers of alcohol consumption have been used in both clinical and research settings to aid in the identification of relapse drinking. Although carbohydrate-deficient transferrin (CDT) has been shown to be a sensitive and specific marker for the identification of heavy drinkers, little data are available as to its utility as a marker for relapse drinking during treatment, particularly in comparison with the more widely used serum γ-glutamyltransferase (GGT). CDT and GGT were measured in 35 male alcoholics before entering, and every 4 weeks during, a 12-week outpatient treatment trial combining pharmacotherapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. CDT and GGT were again measured 14 weeks after completion of treatment. During the 12-week treatment period, CDT showed a significant difference in those individuals who abstained from drinking (30% decrease), compared with those who relapsed (10% increase).

Whilst a healthy debate is good, and there is always room for interpretation of research, I would add that trading insults does not assist people coming to his site for information.
 
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#15
Had my medical thursday, dvla recieved results monday. Results put onto system Tuesday and its a pass. My licence was also issued on Tuesday so waiting for the postman! Thats 5 days from test to licence issued. No Doctors contact and its the full 10 years. Thankfully my ban was so long ago it will not affect my insurance! I got me happy face on!
 

white43

Well-known member
#16
Had my medical thursday, dvla recieved results monday. Results put onto system Tuesday and its a pass. My licence was also issued on Tuesday so waiting for the postman! Thats 5 days from test to licence issued. No Doctors contact and its the full 10 years. Thankfully my ban was so long ago it will not affect my insurance! I got me happy face on!
That's great news!

How long did you abstain from alcohol in the end?? What were you drinking and with what regularity?
 
#17
I didnt stop drinking for the purpose of the test. I stopped drinking to improve my health and level of fitness and basically changed my lifestyle all together but this was about 12 weeks before I had the test. I was a heavy regular dinker so wouldnt have bothered applying for my licence untill i changed my lifestyle. My ban expired over ten years ago but I didnt see the point while I was a drinker.
But about 4 weeks ago I had a lads weekend in Ireland and drunk through it with the rest of them and didnt hold back for the benefit of the test. After 3 days away I came back to my usual self.. I dont really drink water unless im cycling and due to a nasty sinus infection and a virus I have hardly eaten so not exactly been able to be as active (cycling) or eat well at all.. ive basically eaten whatever junk I could stomach so I have at least been eating something. Ive not taken vitamins, milk thistle or done anything else to help me to pass the test.
Thankfully no more lads weekends planned this year, I had zero tolerance to alcohol.. it was hard work and something I wont miss!
But the family days out and summer drives with the kids im looking forward to! (and throwing the bike and fishing tackle in the back and disappearing for the day ;) ...
 

white43

Well-known member
#18
I didnt stop drinking for the purpose of the test. I stopped drinking to improve my health and level of fitness and basically changed my lifestyle all together but this was about 12 weeks before I had the test. I was a heavy regular dinker so wouldnt have bothered applying for my licence untill i changed my lifestyle. My ban expired over ten years ago but I didnt see the point while I was a drinker.
But about 4 weeks ago I had a lads weekend in Ireland and drunk through it with the rest of them and didnt hold back for the benefit of the test. After 3 days away I came back to my usual self.. I dont really drink water unless im cycling and due to a nasty sinus infection and a virus I have hardly eaten so not exactly been able to be as active (cycling) or eat well at all.. ive basically eaten whatever junk I could stomach so I have at least been eating something. Ive not taken vitamins, milk thistle or done anything else to help me to pass the test.
Thankfully no more lads weekends planned this year, I had zero tolerance to alcohol.. it was hard work and something I wont miss!
But the family days out and summer drives with the kids im looking forward to! (and throwing the bike and fishing tackle in the back and disappearing for the day ;) ...
Well done on the lifestyle change. Takes quite a lot to turn ones life around! Quite something.

Based on your experience, I'd say you were far into the clear by your medical and that single binge experience was good 3/4 weeks before that.

Even if you needed 12 weeks, you did use that and had one drinking experience, which may have given a rise, but research indicates it should have cleared in two weeks.

Well done mate.
 
#19
Well done on the lifestyle change. Takes quite a lot to turn ones life around! Quite something.

Based on your experience, I'd say you were far into the clear by your medical and that single binge experience was good 3/4 weeks before that.

Even if you needed 12 weeks, you did use that and had one drinking experience, which may have given a rise, but research indicates it should have cleared in two weeks.

Well done mate.
Thanks!.. My actual licence arrived in the post today, so 8 days from my medical to having my licence in my hand.. i'm pretty impressed with the DVLA after hearing so much negative stuff about them.
Im going to sit here now and just stare at my licence for a good hour or so lol.. I had given up on the idea of driving again because I had so much of my lifestyle and attitude towards driving to change so I have to admit to being rather proud of having it now. And I conquered my fobia of needles at the same time.. mainly due to the examiner being so good at taking blood. So not a bad experience at all really!
 

Mclanelli

Well-known member
#20
Thanks!.. My actual licence arrived in the post today, so 8 days from my medical to having my licence in my hand.. i'm pretty impressed with the DVLA after hearing so much negative stuff about them.
Im going to sit here now and just stare at my licence for a good hour or so lol.. I had given up on the idea of driving again because I had so much of my lifestyle and attitude towards driving to change so I have to admit to being rather proud of having it now. And I conquered my fobia of needles at the same time.. mainly due to the examiner being so good at taking blood. So not a bad experience at all really!
Good for you.

Interesting that you abstained for 12 weeks not 4.

Good luck.

M
 
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