Blew 67 on the roadside. Blood taken 5hrs 45mins after. What are my likely outcomes ?

[WhyMe]

Incident

I was involved in a single vehicle collision on an “A” road 3 months ago. I hit a bollard and the airbags deployed. No one was in the vehicle with me and the police arrived and breathalysed me where I blew 67.

Context

I had my last drink 45 mins prior to the incident on an empty stomach. I drink carbonated alcoholic drinks that evening.

Hospital

I was taken to the local hospital and my blood was taken 5hrs 45 mins later.

Aggravating factors

The highway has made a claim with my insurance company for reasonable damage caused to the bollard.

Help from the Forum

Given my reading what is the likely outcome of my blood results. My calculations all indicate I’ll be under but would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

What’s the likelihood of a Back Calculation being performed?

All help/responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[C J 1980]

Incident

I was involved in a single vehicle collision on an “A” road 3 months ago. I hit a bollard and the airbags deployed. No one was in the vehicle with me and the police arrived and breathalysed me where I blew 67.

Context

I had my last drink 45 mins prior to the incident on an empty stomach. I drink carbonated alcoholic drinks that evening.

Hospital

I was taken to the local hospital and my blood was taken 5hrs 45 mins later.

Aggravating factors

The highway has made a claim with my insurance company for reasonable damage caused to the bollard.

Help from the Forum

Given my reading what is the likely outcome of my blood results. My calculations all indicate I’ll be under but would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

What’s the likelihood of a Back Calculation being performed?

All help/responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

After 5 hours 45 mins, I would say there is still a likelihood you will still be over the limit although I suspect it will be very close to the borderline given the time lapse. Don't forget when you gave your initial reading, your alcohol level may still have been going up. The police will use the blood sample as the basis for the case and not the roadside device, as the latter cannot be used as a evidence on it's own merit.

CJ

 

[WhyMe]

After 5 hours 45 mins, I would say there is still a likelihood you will still be over the limit although I suspect it will be very close to the borderline given the time lapse. Don't forget when you gave your initial reading, your alcohol level may still have been going up. The police will use the blood sample as the basis for the case and not the roadside device, as the latter cannot be used as a evidence on it's own merit.

CJ

Thanks CJ,

Do you know if my scenario will fit the criteria for a back calculation if I am under the limit?

The police mentioned they would ask for one but also stated it was down to the CPS to allow them to do one. They mentioned they could stay charge me for careless driving if I was under the limit.

Is there any truth to any of the above ?

 

[WhyMe]

I’d also like to add the attached graph for the benefit of my case and the forum. It’s from a study conducted showing how quickly blood alcohol peaks after drinking on an empty stomach depending on the type of drink consumed.

As I drunk a carbonated drink 45 mins prior to the road side screening test and I sipped my drink over time the study suggests I would be coming down at the time of the roadside screening. I can post the full study if anyone is interested in reading it.

 

[WhyMe]

 

[mrturk]

Incident

I was involved in a single vehicle collision on an “A” road 3 months ago. I hit a bollard and the airbags deployed. No one was in the vehicle with me and the police arrived and breathalysed me where I blew 67.

Context

I had my last drink 45 mins prior to the incident on an empty stomach. I drink carbonated alcoholic drinks that evening.

Hospital

I was taken to the local hospital and my blood was taken 5hrs 45 mins later.

Aggravating factors

The highway has made a claim with my insurance company for reasonable damage caused to the bollard.

Help from the Forum

Given my reading what is the likely outcome of my blood results. My calculations all indicate I’ll be under but would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

What’s the likelihood of a Back Calculation being performed?

All help/responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Hello,

Based on your breath reading it's very likely you'd be below the limit at the time the blood sample was collected, even taking the possible inaccuracy of the roadside breathalyser into account. However based on what you have said it's almost certain a back calculation was requested and will be authorised, as your situation ticks all the boxes for a back calculation being considered justified by the CPS.

 

[WhyMe]

Hello,

Based on your breath reading it's very likely you'd be below the limit at the time the blood sample was collected, even taking the possible inaccuracy of the roadside breathalyser into account. However based on what you have said it's almost certain a back calculation was requested and will be authorised, as your situation ticks all the boxes for a back calculation being considered justified by the CPS.

Thanks MrTurk,

I knew a Back calculation would be requested but thought there was no public interest in the case as there was no third party till the insurance claim came in. I didn’t see any damage to the bollard at the time but imagine it was assessed at a later date.

Does anyone know if being a prediabetic would have any bearing on the performance of a back calculation?

 

[mrturk]

Thanks MrTurk,

I knew a Back calculation would be requested but thought there was no public interest in the case as there was no third party till the insurance claim came in. I didn’t see any damage to the bollard at the time but imagine it was assessed at a later date.

Does anyone know if being a prediabetic would have any bearing on the performance of a back calculation?

It's generally a case of the back calculation being approved if there's good reason to believe there was a high level at the time of driving, if there was a significant and unavoidable delay in getting a sample, and a collision of any kind will add value to the request. I can't say for certain, but back calculations are not as expensive as they used to be, so I would be surprised if the CPS didn't want one.

Diabetes would have no effect on the calculation. Because this is a straightforward back calculation (no alcohol consumed after driving) they won't consider your body weight, height, or sex either as those don't affect the calculation.

 

[WhyMe]

It's generally a case of the back calculation being approved if there's good reason to believe there was a high level at the time of driving, if there was a significant and unavoidable delay in getting a sample, and a collision of any kind will add value to the request. I can't say for certain, but back calculations are not as expensive as they used to be, so I would be surprised if the CPS didn't want one.

Diabetes would have no effect on the calculation. Because this is a straightforward back calculation (no alcohol consumed after driving) they won't consider your body weight, height, or sex either as those don't affect the calculation.

My question would be that high blood sugar can be mistaken as alcohol by the breathalyser. The basis of the Back calculations is falling blood alcohol levels which can’t be proven in this case of an incorrect initial reading.

Therefore the blood alcohol level in the evidential sample could be due to rising blood Alcohol levels as supposed to falling blood alcohol levels.

Do you agree with my deductions or have I misunderstood this?

 

[WhyMe]

I’ve attached an extract from the CPS document re: The use of back calculations. I didn’t think I feel into any category mentioned

 

[mrturk]

My question would be that high blood sugar can be mistaken as alcohol by the breathalyser. The basis of the Back calculations is falling blood alcohol levels which can’t be proven in this case of an incorrect initial reading.

Therefore the blood alcohol level in the evidential sample could be due to rising blood Alcohol levels as supposed to falling blood alcohol levels.

Do you agree with my deductions or have I misunderstood this?

No you have misunderstood, the blood test will not mistake sugar for alcohol. A blood analysis is done at a laboratory, using a method called Gas Chromatography, and it's very accurate.

I can only tell you that from my experience in court, cases like yours almost always attract a back calculation.

 

[WhyMe]

No you have misunderstood, the blood test will not mistake sugar for alcohol. A blood analysis is done at a laboratory, using a method called Gas Chromatography, and it's very accurate.

I can only tell you that from my experience in court, cases like yours almost always attract a back calculation.

I agree the blood test will accurately record my blood alcohol level at the time of the test.

The issue I have is how can it be proven my alcohol level was falling if the breathalyser test can be inaccurate due to high blood sugar levels ?

Therefore the concept of going back to work out my alcohol levels is flawed on the basis of rising blood alcohol levels. Is there merit in my thought process here ?

 

[mrturk]

I agree the blood test will accurately record my blood alcohol level at the time of the test.

The issue I have is how can it be proven my alcohol level was falling if the breathalyser test can be inaccurate due to high blood sugar levels ?

Therefore the concept of going back to work out my alcohol levels is flawed on the basis of rising blood alcohol levels. Is there merit in my thought process here ?

No, a breathalyser can't be affected by high blood sugar levels, and the blood test won't take your breathalyser result into account. It will only read what is actually in your blood.

Blood sugar doesn't change your blood alcohol level, at least not while you're alive.

 

[WhyMe]

No, a breathalyser can't be affected by high blood sugar levels, and the blood test won't take your breathalyser result into account. It will only read what is actually in your blood.

Blood sugar doesn't change your blood alcohol level, at least not while you're alive.

To my knowledge the acetones produced in the breath of a diabetic are what can cause a false positive breathalyser reading. This can be confirmed with a quick online search. Again the blood test will be accurate (to 6 standard deviations).

Therefore my question is what merit does a back calculation have if it can’t be proven that blood alcohol was falling ?

In my case if the initial reading was wrong and my evidential reading was below the limit. The defence would be rising blood alcohol levels.

How can it be proven my blood alcohol levels were falling is my question?

 

[mrturk]

To my knowledge the acetones produced in the breath of a diabetic are what can cause a false positive breathalyser reading. This can be confirmed with a quick online search. Again the blood test will be accurate (to 6 standard deviations).

Therefore my question is what merit does a back calculation have if it can’t be proven that blood alcohol was falling ?

In my case if the initial reading was wrong and my evidential reading was below the limit. The defence would be rising blood alcohol levels.

How can it be proven my blood alcohol levels were falling is my question?

I'm going to suggest you're over thinking this. I advise against being the defendant that shows up to court with piles of scientific documents to defend your own case, the court won't recognise anything you say unless it comes from a toxicologist and it annoys them. If you do want to challenge a back calculation you will need to hire a lawyer and a toxicologist, but there's no point doing so before you're even charged. So you're wasting your energy Googling all this now.

Acetone can give false positive readings on a roadside breath device (not on the evidential machine, and newer breath devices are less vulnerable to this). But the test they're doing on your blood will not be affected by acetone. In fact it will separate acetone as display it as a result in addition to the ethanol they're concerned with. The roadside result will not even be looked at by the scientist doing the calculation. They will only look at your blood result and do a relatively simple calculation using that level.

I must reiterate here, diabetes doesn't affect blood alcohol tests or back calculations.

 

[Missbee]

Incident

I was involved in a single vehicle collision on an “A” road 3 months ago. I hit a bollard and the airbags deployed. No one was in the vehicle with me and the police arrived and breathalysed me where I blew 67.

Context

I had my last drink 45 mins prior to the incident on an empty stomach. I drink carbonated alcoholic drinks that evening.

Hospital

I was taken to the local hospital and my blood was taken 5hrs 45 mins later.

Aggravating factors

The highway has made a claim with my insurance company for reasonable damage caused to the bollard.

Help from the Forum

Given my reading what is the likely outcome of my blood results. My calculations all indicate I’ll be under but would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

What’s the likelihood of a Back Calculation being performed?

All help/responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

End of the day, you got caught drink driving. I understand why you'd want to try and fight it but it's really not worth the money fighting when you are actually guilty of drink driving.

 

[WhyMe]

I'm going to suggest you're over thinking this. I advise against being the defendant that shows up to court with piles of scientific documents to defend your own case, the court won't recognise anything you say unless it comes from a toxicologist and it annoys them. If you do want to challenge a back calculation you will need to hire a lawyer and a toxicologist, but there's no point doing so before you're even charged. So you're wasting your energy Googling all this now.

Acetone can give false positive readings on a roadside breath device (not on the evidential machine, and newer breath devices are less vulnerable to this). But the test they're doing on your blood will not be affected by acetone. In fact it will separate acetone as display it as a result in addition to the ethanol they're concerned with. The roadside result will not even be looked at by the scientist doing the calculation. They will only look at your blood result and do a relatively simple calculation using that level.

I must reiterate here, diabetes doesn't affect blood alcohol tests or back calculations.

Thanks MrTurk,

I haven’t had an interview yet and if charged with a DUI I will certainly be instructing a solicitor to defend me. Are there any firms that are recommended for cases such as mine which involve a blood sample?

I know the forum tends to discourage defending charges but I’d be inclined to in my case.

 

[WhyMe]

End of the day, you got caught drink driving. I understand why you'd want to try and fight it but it's really not worth the money fighting when you are actually guilty of drink driving.

Hi Missbee,

I’m not disputing that at all but I will defend the charge if it does arise.

 

[Missbee]

Thanks MrTurk,

I haven’t had an interview yet and if charged with a DUI I will certainly be instructing a solicitor to defend me. Are there any firms that are recommended for cases such as mine which involve a blood sample?

I know the forum tends to discourage defending charges but I’d be inclined to in my case.

But you were drinking driving when you crashed

 

[WhyMe]

But you were drinking driving when you crashed

I agree. Is the issue one of morality here ?