Alcohol misuse

Convicted Driver Insurance
In 2017 I had a shitstorm of negative things happen to me which resulted in serious depression. I was suicidal. I went to my doctor for help and was prescribed drugs, but my depression was situational, not chemical. I told her I was drinking a bottle of wine every night. Long story short I applied for a HGV licence and thats when the trouble started. My medical required the DVLA to contact my doctor as I was on medication. I need to explain that I don't drink under the influence. I'm really careful about that. One unit one hour. Anyway, my licence was revoked for persistent misuse and as I work in hotels and travel around, finding GP who knew me was impossible. I was without my licence for a year but eventually got a medical and my licence was reinstated for a year. When it expired I applied again but this was during the time of covid it was another year before I got a medical my CDT was 0.6% with about 27 to 36 units a week. Thats a bottle of wine with dinner, a few times a week. Excessive only in the eyes of the DVLA. Please tell me if that sounds like problem drinking. This year it appears I will be another year unless they agree to cut out the middle man and allow me to see their doctor directly. I dont think i'm allowed to drive under section 88 even though two different DVLA doctors have passed me as fit to drive in the last 4 years. This seems senseless and draconian but what can I do. I feel more piised off as I haven't committed any offence
 

Recovered22

Well-known member
In 2017 I had a shitstorm of negative things happen to me which resulted in serious depression. I was suicidal. I went to my doctor for help and was prescribed drugs, but my depression was situational, not chemical. I told her I was drinking a bottle of wine every night. Long story short I applied for a HGV licence and thats when the trouble started. My medical required the DVLA to contact my doctor as I was on medication. I need to explain that I don't drink under the influence. I'm really careful about that. One unit one hour. Anyway, my licence was revoked for persistent misuse and as I work in hotels and travel around, finding GP who knew me was impossible. I was without my licence for a year but eventually got a medical and my licence was reinstated for a year. When it expired I applied again but this was during the time of covid it was another year before I got a medical my CDT was 0.6% with about 27 to 36 units a week. Thats a bottle of wine with dinner, a few times a week. Excessive only in the eyes of the DVLA. Please tell me if that sounds like problem drinking. This year it appears I will be another year unless they agree to cut out the middle man and allow me to see their doctor directly. I dont think i'm allowed to drive under section 88 even though two different DVLA doctors have passed me as fit to drive in the last 4 years. This seems senseless and draconian but what can I do. I feel more piised off as I haven't committed any offence

Not excessive only in the eyes of the DVLA, excessive to any medical body. It's almost 3 times the weekly recommended units, this limit has been set by determining that 14 units per week is the cut off where long term damage relating to alcohol will not occur. Is 14 units a small amount of alcohol? Well yes, when you're used to more.

However, a bottle of wine by yourself with dinner isn't normal. A glass of wine with dinner is. That is completely subjective though based on my friends and colleagues who drink wine's intake, a glass with dinner, not a bottle. A medium glass with dinner 7 nights a week would put you at the weekly recommended units. A user on this forum was revoked for telling his doctor he drank 22 units a week, admitting 27-36 would be a diagnosis of persistent misuse by almost any GP. I don't think your drinking is overly dangerous, you are well aware of the unit per hour rule and you say you don't drive over the limit so that's good. A GP would not agree with my thinking though.
 
Not excessive only in the eyes of the DVLA, excessive to any medical body. It's almost 3 times the weekly recommended units, this limit has been set by determining that 14 units per week is the cut off where long term damage relating to alcohol will not occur. Is 14 units a small amount of alcohol? Well yes, when you're used to more.

However, a bottle of wine by yourself with dinner isn't normal. A glass of wine with dinner is. That is completely subjective though based on my friends and colleagues who drink wine's intake, a glass with dinner, not a bottle. A medium glass with dinner 7 nights a week would put you at the weekly recommended units. A user on this forum was revoked for telling his doctor he drank 22 units a week, admitting 27-36 would be a diagnosis of persistent misuse by almost any GP. I don't think your drinking is overly dangerous, you are well aware of the unit per hour rule and you say you don't drive over the limit so that's good. A GP would not agree with my thinkin
No doctor in his right mind would consider 27 to 36 units misuse. Unhealthy yes but not misuse. The forum member lied about his intake or what the reasons were for the licence being revoked. This is my third time round on the DVLA merry-go-round and I know that 27 to 36 units are fine as long as the CDT readings are acceptable
 
I'd like to know your agenda. We all know the limits and they're laughable. What's scary is the DVLA can use the 14 units rule to classify anyone who drinks more than that as misusing alcohol. I'm just wondering who hurt you
 

Recovered22

Well-known member
I'd like to know your agenda. We all know the limits and they're laughable. What's scary is the DVLA can use the 14 units rule to classify anyone who drinks more than that as misusing alcohol. I'm just wondering who hurt you

Yeah my agenda, I'm paid by big health to shill anti-alcohol messages all over the internet. You got me! Wobble your head. I know how many units I first was diagnosed a persistent misuser for, I know how many units other users have reported and I know how many units I was consuming when I was first diagnosed dependent (it wasn't many more than you've reported) But sure just like the other posters, I must be a liar too?

If you read the bottom part of my reply you would see that I already say I don't agree with your drinking being dangerous. You literally asked "please tell me if that sounds like a drinking problem" and I told you that to the DVLA and a doctor that is a drinking problem and you've gone off at me for having an agenda? Sorry you got advice instead of an echo chamber, I for sure won't be giving you any again.
 

price1367

TTC Group
No doctor in his right mind would consider 27 to 36 units misuse. Unhealthy yes but not misuse. The forum member lied about his intake or what the reasons were for the licence being revoked. This is my third time round on the DVLA merry-go-round and I know that 27 to 36 units are fine as long as the CDT readings are acceptable
But have you had a medical with the acceptable CDT score being as low as it has been now for the past 2-3 years?
What was a pass 5 years ago may well be a fail now.
All folk on here try to do is advise other posters of what they face with the DVLA process. It doesn't mean that they agree with the demands from DVLA, nor with the delay in processing the applications, but no amount of protesting and saying how unreasonable it is which change the reality.
The regular posters on here have been able to watch how the DVLA process is being reported by new posters, and it has changed a lot, as have the number of people being referred to DVLA by their GP’s for what is deemed to be excessive alcohol intake and it is correct to say that the benchmark for sensible drinking is 14 units per week. (Not that they report people for a few over that)
8 years ago it was 21 for females and 28 for men. We are the only country in Europe that have the same guidelines of alcohol consumption for men and women, all the others have a higher threshold for men. Personally I do not agree that this is right, but my opinion counts for nothing so I live with it.
 

Gilln1

Well-known member
I'd like to know your agenda. We all know the limits and they're laughable. What's scary is the DVLA can use the 14 units rule to classify anyone who drinks more than that as misusing alcohol. I'm just wondering who hurt you
It might be worth you bearing in mind Not-So-Commonsenseman that people like grice96 and price1367 put a LOT of time and effort into giving a LOT of people here a LOT of sound sensible advice and answers to a LOT of questions surrounding the circumstances we have all found ourselves in ...... if you aren't sure if you will like honest answers then probably best you don't ask the questions, that might then make you think Common Sense instead of trying to wave your willy around and throwing out daft comments like "I'd like to know your agenda".

If you bother to read all of what grice96 said you might see that he wasn't actually disagreeing with you, but you obviously didnt get that far and were already unzipping for the waving event.

If the average bottle of wine is around 9 units and you were on a bottle a night, every night then that's 63 units a week, up to you if you think that's misuse or not. But as someone who used drink similar amounts I'd say pretty excessive every week. In my opinion .... its misuse if you cant go without it, only you know if you can do that or not. If you've cut down to 27-36 then good for you, you may well feel a tad healthier. I used to get through similar amounts of units as you and as I still enjoy a good drink every now and then.... I certainly feel healthier

None of us here (as far as I know) make the rules, but we all have to put up with them so if you dont like the rules then as the old saying goes "Don't blame the player, blame the game"

So, stop being a bell-end and play nice !
 

bored waiting

Well-known member
No doctor in his right mind would consider 27 to 36 units misuse. Unhealthy yes but not misuse. The forum member lied about his intake or what the reasons were for the licence being revoked. This is my third time round on the DVLA merry-go-round and I know that 27 to 36 units are fine as long as the CDT readings are
I am a Dr in his right mind.

27-36 units a Week Is excessive, there is no ifs ands or buts about this. There is no specific definition of drinking x units means missuse and drinking x units means dependence. Its all to be assessed in the context of the individual patient. Co existing factors and health in general. The guidelines are just that , “GUIDE”lines and what are used as recommendations to help achieve uniformity in making a diagnosis.

Consumption of the amount of alcohol you state you are drinking is not advised and is excessive. Its has other health consequences outside of a driving licence. Whilst you may be able to achieve low CDT values on a specific individual test , the history of consumption is large and prolonged, and significantly over the recommend amount. Failure to reduce this despite advise would raise the question of a patients inability to control their drinking and as such raise the question not only of misuse but also dependence.

The DVLA has to have some sort of fixed and reproducible values that it can categorize individuals into . The CDT helps do this for them but you may well find that you are able to occasionally achieve a CDT in the green or amber zone and still be categorized as misusing or even dependence by a Dr. As doctors we don’t use CDT alone to diagnose misuse or dependence, it’s a combination of multiple assessments and our clinical opinion. Once you have a diagnosis and the ICD code in your notes its there whether you agree with it or not. Removal would likely require multiple opinions, likely 2 independent Drs who also asses you. Why am I saying this, because you don’t want to have it on your records in the first place.

Id suggest cutting down on your drinking to the maximum of 14units per week. Why , because that’s whats recommended. If you cant reduce your intake , Why ? as that suggests dependence and chronic misuse.



See below the information from NHS and DVLA



NHS

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcoho...=men and women are advised,as 14 units a week

“men and women are advised not to drink more than 14 units a week on a regular basis”



DVLA


Guide to definition of misuse

There is no singular definition to embrace all the variables within alcohol misuse – but DVLA offers the following:

A state that causes, because of consumption of alcohol, disturbance of behaviour, related disease or other consequences likely to cause the patient, their family or society present or future harm and that may or may not be associated with dependence.

The relevant classification code for alcohol misuse is World Health Organization F10.1 (ICD-10).



Definition of controlled drinking

Drinking within government recommended health guidelines (currently 14 units per week).

There is no singular definition to embrace all the variables within alcohol dependence – but DVLA offers the following:

“A cluster of behavioural, cognitive and physiological phenomena that develop after repeated alcohol use, including:

a strong desire to take alcohol

difficulties in controlling its use

persistent use in spite of harmful consequences

and with evidence of increased tolerance and sometimes a physical withdrawal state”

Indicators may include any history of withdrawal symptoms, tolerance, detoxification or alcohol-related seizures.

The relevant classification code for alcohol dependence is World Health Organization F10.2 (ICD-10).
 

Recovered22

Well-known member
I am a Dr in his right mind.

27-36 units a Week Is excessive, there is no ifs ands or buts about this. There is no specific definition of drinking x units means missuse and drinking x units means dependence. Its all to be assessed in the context of the individual patient. Co existing factors and health in general. The guidelines are just that , “GUIDE”lines and what are used as recommendations to help achieve uniformity in making a diagnosis.

Consumption of the amount of alcohol you state you are drinking is not advised and is excessive. Its has other health consequences outside of a driving licence. Whilst you may be able to achieve low CDT values on a specific individual test , the history of consumption is large and prolonged, and significantly over the recommend amount. Failure to reduce this despite advise would raise the question of a patients inability to control their drinking and as such raise the question not only of misuse but also dependence.

The DVLA has to have some sort of fixed and reproducible values that it can categorize individuals into . The CDT helps do this for them but you may well find that you are able to occasionally achieve a CDT in the green or amber zone and still be categorized as misusing or even dependence by a Dr. As doctors we don’t use CDT alone to diagnose misuse or dependence, it’s a combination of multiple assessments and our clinical opinion. Once you have a diagnosis and the ICD code in your notes its there whether you agree with it or not. Removal would likely require multiple opinions, likely 2 independent Drs who also asses you. Why am I saying this, because you don’t want to have it on your records in the first place.

Id suggest cutting down on your drinking to the maximum of 14units per week. Why , because that’s whats recommended. If you cant reduce your intake , Why ? as that suggests dependence and chronic misuse.



See below the information from NHS and DVLA



NHS

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alcohol-units/#:~:text=men and women are advised,as 14 units a week

“men and women are advised not to drink more than 14 units a week on a regular basis”



DVLA


Guide to definition of misuse

There is no singular definition to embrace all the variables within alcohol misuse – but DVLA offers the following:

A state that causes, because of consumption of alcohol, disturbance of behaviour, related disease or other consequences likely to cause the patient, their family or society present or future harm and that may or may not be associated with dependence.

The relevant classification code for alcohol misuse is World Health Organization F10.1 (ICD-10).



Definition of controlled drinking

Drinking within government recommended health guidelines (currently 14 units per week).

There is no singular definition to embrace all the variables within alcohol dependence – but DVLA offers the following:

“A cluster of behavioural, cognitive and physiological phenomena that develop after repeated alcohol use, including:

a strong desire to take alcohol

difficulties in controlling its use

persistent use in spite of harmful consequences

and with evidence of increased tolerance and sometimes a physical withdrawal state”

Indicators may include any history of withdrawal symptoms, tolerance, detoxification or alcohol-related seizures.

The relevant classification code for alcohol dependence is World Health Organization F10.2 (ICD-10).

Always appreciated to have a Doctor available on the forum to chime in. Often people decide what they think a doctor's duty of care extends to: rather than what it is in reality (and damn everyone who doesn't agree with their view.)
 
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