Advice Needed on Expected Punishment

Convicted Driver Insurance

firemansam007

Well-known member
Hello All,

This has been a great forum and very helpful with many knowledgeable contributors.

My friend have been caught on Saturday evening (around 9PM) near his home for drink driving. His reading was 152 on the evidential breath machine at station. Road side was 165. Actually his partner informed the police and they stopped him few minutes from home. He was already disqualified last year (3 year ban and 6 weeks suspended prison sentence (this is now over). That was for Fail to provide specimen and the road side breath reading was 132. This was his second offence (got banned for 26 months in 2012 with a reading on 89, obviously HRO).

He is now charged with Drink driving and Driving whilst disqualified. Good that driving without insurance hasn't been put on him.

Few questions i have

1) What sentence he can expect
2) Is it worth to have a solicitor to represent him. The case is now in Crown court.

Thanks for your help

Regards,

Sam
 

price1367

TTC Group
You say “the case is now in Crown court”….
There is something missing from the account because both drink driving and driving whilst disqualified are summary only offences, in other words they can only be tried at Magistrates court.
For him to be in the crown court, one of two things must have happened:
1. He has already pleaded guilty in the magistrates court and he has been committed to crown court for sentence.
2. He has also been charged With taking the motor vehicle without consent or some other offence that can go to crown court, but for that to be true he must have already been to magistrates court and there was a request from the prosecution or the defence for the case to be remitted to the crown court for trial.
Was he refused bail by the police and appeared at the magistrates court this morning? If so, which of the two scenarios above apply?.
 

firemansam007

Well-known member
Hi Price,

Thanks for your quick response. It's my/my friend's mistake. He told it's crown court. As per your response i am assuming it would be in magistrate's court only. He was arrested on Saturday evening and released on bail Sunday afternoon. The police told him if you are here again they won't release you on bail. The duty solicitor at station told him he can expect to be 6 months behind bars and if lucky might get reduced to 6 weeks.

I am assuming he would be expecting his ban to be increased to 5 years.

Thanks for your time.

Regards,

Sam
 

price1367

TTC Group
I think the duty solicitor has summed it up well, at least a 4 year ban, more likely 5 and almost certainly prison, I would think between 8 - 16 weeks. He should certainly get a solicitor himself, he should qualify for legal aid due to the significant risk of custody.
He might try to get the ban reduced by a cheeky request for a drink drive rehabilitation course…… there are clearly things he needs to learn about his habit of drinking and driving, but that will not be an option if the courts slap him with a requirement to retake his test at the end of the ban.
 

firemansam007

Well-known member
Thank you Price for your response and help.

He's really worried now and not sure whether he he will change his relationship with drinking. He was just into the second year of his 3 year ban but...

Is there any chance he could pay a higher fine and high community service instead of prison?

Another question, if he moves to Republic of Ireland can he drive there if he obtains an Irish driving licence. Or is the ban in UK is applicable in ROI. please advise.

Regards,

Sam
 

price1367

TTC Group
I fear that having been given a suspended sentence before, although that has expired, and given his very high reading, that a prison sentence will be inevitable. The court will not let him buy his way out of facing the consequences of his actions.
It is worrying that even now he is “not sure whether he will change his relationship with alcohol” , and also looking at how he can continue to drive.
His drinking is his own concern, but when he then takes to the road and repeatedly puts others at risk then quite frankly a prison sentence is deserved…..
He cannot drive in the Irish Republic if banned here, there is a mutual recognition agreement between the countries so he is banned there as well for the duration of his. An. He will also face close scrutiny from DVLA when (if, at this rate) he gets to the end of his ban and if his drinking is not sorted well before then, he faces no prospect of getting his licence back.
 

Recovered22

Well-known member
Thank you Price for your response. :)

Just to follow up a point on this, when you apply for an ROI licence a check is carried out by the RSA with the DVA in NI who can confirm the licence status of any UK driver via the DVLA's system. Your friends record will then be available to the RSA and if a HRO medical is outstanding in the UK they will face the same level of medical scrutiny that you would face applying in the UK.

This used to not be the case but when the new service was launched over covid the ROI (like most licencing bodies) has heavily tightened up it's application process for offenders.
 

firemansam007

Well-known member
Thanks grice.

Sorry i have another question, assume my friend gets a prison sentence. Will he be taken to the prison straight away or he will get sometime to sort out his stuff. Please advise.

Thanks,

Sam
 

price1367

TTC Group
Thanks grice.

Sorry i have another question, assume my friend gets a prison sentence. Will he be taken to the prison straight away or he will get sometime to sort out his stuff. Please advise.

Thanks,

Sam
The likely outcome will be that if the magistrates are considering prison, then they will adjourn for reports to be prepared.
If your friend is in court in a quieter area, they will hear the reports in 2 or 3 weeks, and if they send him to prison it would be the day he returrns.
In a busy area they may well have resident probation officers who would prepare the report the same day, so he could be in court in the morning, adjourned for reports which would be presented in the afternoon and they then send him to prison the same day.
 

Recovered22

Well-known member
Thanks grice.

Sorry i have another question, assume my friend gets a prison sentence. Will he be taken to the prison straight away or he will get sometime to sort out his stuff. Please advise.

Thanks,

Sam

Anyone I know who has been sent to prison has been sent on the day but price is correct it's on a case by case basis depending on the availability of the probation service. I would recommend your friend has their affairs in order in time for their court appearance.
 

Darran66

Well-known member
Hello All,

This has been a great forum and very helpful with many knowledgeable contributors.

My friend have been caught on Saturday evening (around 9PM) near his home for drink driving. His reading was 152 on the evidential breath machine at station. Road side was 165. Actually his partner informed the police and they stopped him few minutes from home. He was already disqualified last year (3 year ban and 6 weeks suspended prison sentence (this is now over). That was for Fail to provide specimen and the road side breath reading was 132. This was his second offence (got banned for 26 months in 2012 with a reading on 89, obviously HRO).

He is now charged with Drink driving and Driving whilst disqualified. Good that driving without insurance hasn't been put on him.

Few questions i have

1) What sentence he can expect
2) Is it worth to have a solicitor to represent him. The case is now in Crown court.

Thanks for your help

Regards,

Sam
I blew 135 in 1999, never had a litter fine , never mind court,,my brief said if it was a 2nd offence or my ex at the time was ready pop with our twins ,plus I'd got a good job , the only thing that saved me from jail was the fact I gave a sample ! I think don't read even what's the minimum or maximum , every case is different , I'd say get a good solicitor , we are going like USA , £ changes everything , plus if your mates not working , get on the sick and put it down to he,or she was too proud to say they were depressed and not sleeping , mind you , 150 plus ,,, that's more breakdown ,,,mine actually was , my ex was a nightmare , even tho she was pregnant , with her she was the only pregnant woman in our city ! So I had a date with Johnny ,,, me and Mr Walker went back many years
 

firemansam007

Well-known member
Hello all,

I thought i will provide an update on the above. My friend is in HM service for 2 months (don't have further details including ban extension... etc) . He was taken to prison on the same day from court, hence i don't have much details.

Few more questions from my side

1) Is there anyway i can contact him in prison (i don't even know which one he's in)

2) I read it in www.gov.uk that if the sentence is less than 12 months there will be an auto release at half the term. In this case he should be out in 4 weeks.

Please can you advise. Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Sam
 

RSC

Well-known member
https://www.gov.uk/find-prisoner may help

It is my understanding - but feel free to correct me - that if a prisoner behaves well, they are generally released on licence half way or earlier in their sentence. That DD solicitor who was jailed for 10 weeks but released after two is a recent example.
 

C J 1980

Well-known member
Hello all,

I thought i will provide an update on the above. My friend is in HM service for 2 months (don't have further details including ban extension... etc) . He was taken to prison on the same day from court, hence i don't have much details.

Few more questions from my side

1) Is there anyway i can contact him in prison (i don't even know which one he's in)

2) I read it in www.gov.uk that if the sentence is less than 12 months there will be an auto release at half the term. In this case he should be out in 4 weeks.

Please can you advise. Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Sam

Sam

I am really to sorry to hear about this. Has he been sent to one of the lower category prisons?

Regarding the questions you raised -

1) You can request a visit but there are security checks that would need to be done. The chances are that once your visiting request has been approved, your friend will probably be released anyway by then. I would be tempted to write him a letter, but just be mindful that prison correspondence can be read and scrutinised by prison staff.

2) Yes, he will only have to serve half the sentence inside. I am not too sure if the second part of the sentence will be monitored by the probation service where he might be subject to a night time curfew and regular appointments with a probation officer.

Regarding the driving aspect - has he now been given a maximum 5 year ban?

CJ
 

price1367

TTC Group
Hello all,

I thought i will provide an update on the above. My friend is in HM service for 2 months (don't have further details including ban extension... etc) . He was taken to prison on the same day from court, hence i don't have much details.

Few more questions from my side

1) Is there anyway i can contact him in prison (i don't even know which one he's in)

2) I read it in www.gov.uk that if the sentence is less than 12 months there will be an auto release at half the term. In this case he should be out in 4 weeks.

Please can you advise. Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Sam

This link will provide helpful information, as well as the good link from RSC:


And yes, he should be released at the half way point, perhaps with a tag for the remaining month.
 

firemansam007

Well-known member
Thanks CJ and Price.

My friend called me from prison today. Unfortunately i can't contact him but he have to call me. He's in Elmley near Kent.

Actually he got 16 weeks reduced to 8 weeks for an early guilty plea. He also got an additional 36 months added to the current ban. (he was on 36 months ban for his second offence, done the course which reduced 25%. i think he had got 36 months Jul-2020 and is now into 15 months into that (got 12 more months on that to serve)

He used the duty solicitor but didn't help much, magistrates stick on to the guidelines.
 

C J 1980

Well-known member
Thanks CJ and Price.

My friend called me from prison today. Unfortunately i can't contact him but he have to call me. He's in Elmley near Kent.

Actually he got 16 weeks reduced to 8 weeks for an early guilty plea. He also got an additional 36 months added to the current ban. (he was on 36 months ban for his second offence, done the course which reduced 25%. i think he had got 36 months Jul-2020 and is now into 15 months into that (got 12 more months on that to serve)

He used the duty solicitor but didn't help much, magistrates stick on to the guidelines.

Sam

Hopefully with the 8 week sentence, he should be released in time for Christmas.

It would be in order for me to say that he needs to forget about driving again for a long long time. One step at a time, but I would think he will have a lot of bridges to cross before he can even consider driving again.

If anything does come out of all this, is that at least no one else has come to any harm and he won't have someone else's misery weighing on his consious.

Maybe the experience of a short prison sentence will be enough of a 'jolt' for your friend to make some positive changes to his life when he is released.

CJ
 
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