Advice for court

[Sillylivvy]

Hi I am in court on 16th Oct.
really don’t know what to expect and am very frightened. Any support I suppose would be really appreciated.
I blew 79 after getting in my car after a fight with abusive partner. He kicked me out of house Sunday morning( early hours) in just my pj’s- no purse just my phone and told me to sleep in the car. Stupidly decided to drive but turned around so only got out of his little road- didn’t drive far at all, hit kerb on way back and ended up on other side of the road- thankfully just damage to my car, no other damage.
I am ashamed and heartbroken.
Help.....

 

[TipsyNurse]

Hi Livvy,

Sorry to hear you've had such a tough time.

There is a defence to drink driving called duress of circumstance. Simply put, it requires that your partner made credible threats to severely injure you, and that driving the distance you did was the only realistic method of escape. It also requires that you would have chosen to drive your car even if you were sober.

That is quite a hurdle but it sounds like it could be applicable in your circumstances. For it to be strong it ideally needs that you told the police this after you were arrested, or that you didn't tell them because you were being coerced by your partner. It also is good if you have a witness statement from a friend or relative with standing in the community, e.g. doctor, nurse, solicitor etc confirming the relationship problems you had.

If you convince the court your partner's actions caused you to drink drive then you should be aquitted and have no fine, ban, etc.

If you wanted to use that defence you would have to decide whether to use a solicitor or represent yourself. A lot of that is personal preference. If you are eloquent and able to focus entirely on the points above without being sidetracked then representing yourself could work. Magistrates are human and especially in your circumstances usually try to explain and guide you through the trial. But the costs for a contested trial are £620 Vs £85 for a guilty plea.

Otherwise you can plead guilty but explain the circumstances. Often magistrates will reduce the ban down to the minimum of one year reduced to nine months if you complete the course in recognition that you were under extreme stress at the time which contributed to your poor decision.

You may want to get some dummy quotes before you make a decision NOT using your real name or address as that will have considerable financial impact for five years.

Whatever you decide let us know and we can offer further advice.

 

[Sillylivvy]

I have a solicitor working on it.
The police are aware of some of the issues I have had with him but as I have not pressed charges I think they don’t take me seriously. The police have been called 2 times to my home address because of him.
Victim support are talking to me now as the police referred me on Sunday.
I am scared if I bring up what was going on in court, it will come back and do me harm (ie him doing me harm)
I will plead guilty and hope that my solicitor can plead my case for leaniecy as this is totally out of my character. A complete moment of madness but under stress you do not think straight. And at 4.30am in the morning in the cold and pj’s - you really don’t think straight!
Just so scared. Not only dealing with this but also the break up of our relationship.
I am struggling a bit :-(

 

[hewl]

Hi Livvy,

Sorry to hear you've had such a tough time.

There is a defence to drink driving called duress of circumstance. Simply put, it requires that your partner made credible threats to severely injure you, and that driving the distance you did was the only realistic method of escape. It also requires that you would have chosen to drive your car even if you were sober.

That is quite a hurdle but it sounds like it could be applicable in your circumstances. For it to be strong it ideally needs that you told the police this after you were arrested, or that you didn't tell them because you were being coerced by your partner. It also is good if you have a witness statement from a friend or relative with standing in the community, e.g. doctor, nurse, solicitor etc confirming the relationship problems you had.

If you convince the court your partner's actions caused you to drink drive then you should be aquitted and have no fine, ban, etc.

Nowhere in the original post is any of this suggested!

None of your advice seems applicable in this case at all.

From the OP's account she was kicked out of the house not being attacked or in fear, just outside in pj's.

Sillylivvy did you drive because you were actually in danger or fear of your life? Or did you make a silly decision to drive? You need to be very clear on this. Did you have no choice but to drive to get away from a dangerous situation? If not, do not pursue the advice given by TipseyNurse. Perjury = guaranteed jail time!

 

[TipsyNurse]

Frankly, you are wrong.

A defence of necessity does not require someone to be physically chasing you down the street, or make a specific threat. It requires the defendant to have the reasonable belief that they could be seriously harmed, and that the decision to drive was proportional to that threat.

It's not appropriate to push the OP but the basis of domestic violence is that a partner emotionally controls a partner by harming them. It is impossible to judge what the OP thought from outside the relationship but it is ridiculous, insulting and wrong to claim it is perjury for someone in an abusive relationship to say they feared for their safety at any moment, forget when chucked out the house in the early hours.

Perhaps if you wish to make ignorant comments about domestic violence you should keep them in your head.

 

[hewl]

Frankly, you are wrong.

A defence of necessity does not require someone to be physically chasing you down the street, or make a specific threat. It requires the defendant to have the reasonable belief that they could be seriously harmed, and that the decision to drive was proportional to that threat.

It's not appropriate to push the OP but the basis of domestic violence is that a partner emotionally controls a partner by harming them. It is impossible to judge what the OP thought from outside the relationship but it is ridiculous, insulting and wrong to claim it is perjury for someone in an abusive relationship to say they feared for their safety at any moment, forget when chucked out the house in the early hours.

Perhaps if you wish to make ignorant comments about domestic violence you should keep them in your head.

I am not making ignorant comments about domestic violence. I am being realistic!

You have put ideas in the OP's head (ideas you did not and COULD not have gained from the original post) of a defence that isnt there which could get them in trouble for lying!

Nowhere did you ask the obvious questions that would be put to the OP by the Police and potentially a Magistrate!

If they had their phone why didnt they call the Police or someone else for help?

Why didnt they simply run?

Where exactly was the boyfriend at the time? In or out of the house?

Why was there absolutely no alternative than to drive!?

Etc........

The truth appears to be a silly mistake rather than imminent fear.

To turn a mistake into a get out blaming domestic violence is what is ridiculous, insulting and wrong.

I think you'll find that beating a drink driving charge by claiming what you have is actually very difficult.

Perhaps you should refrain from taking people down a road that could get them in trouble.

 

[AlanT73]

Livvy, Tipsy Nurse. I wouldn't take too much notice of this hewl character to be honest. He/she has a tendency to post deliberately provocative wording. Whether they mean it or are just some sort of keyboard warrior is neither here nor there.

Excellent advice from Tipsy Nurse. Agreed, it could be a bit of a hurdle but the circumstances at the very least will hopefully keep any ban (if it is imposed) to an absolute minimum. The most important thing is that you are now out of an abusive relationship and can rebuild your life. Maybe think of this as the trigger that got you out of this awful relationship and any short term hardship will be far outweighed by the long term benefit. I wish you all the best.

 

[hewl]

Excellent advice from Tipsy Nurse. Agreed, it could be a bit of a hurdle but the circumstances at the very least will hopefully keep any ban (if it is imposed) to an absolute minimum. The most important thing is that you are now out of an abusive relationship and can rebuild your life. Maybe think of this as the trigger that got you out of this awful relationship and any short term hardship will be far outweighed by the long term benefit. I wish you all the best.

Why is it excellent advice?? None of the questions that the Police or Magistrates will ask have been addressed so it is terrible advice!

OP think this through very carefully before you go along with the so called advice from TipsyNurse. Only you know the truth.

I 100% agree domestic violence is wrong but it does not mean a get out of a drink driving charge. You have to be realistic about that and its important you are informed of what the Police will ask you as TipsyNurse didnt make you aware of that!

Fact is despite the circumstances, you had options you didnt take. There was no need to drive. None of this has been queried by TipsyNurse. Instead you have been lead into what you 'could' say! This is not good advice!

 

[AlanT73]

Also Livvy. I wouldn't be overly concerned about not pressing charges (the domestic abuse apologists out there may disagree) as this happens on many occasions because the sufferer fears the repurcussions. The fact that the police referred you to victim support is a clear indication that they understand your situation. Your solicitor will no doubt make this clear in court.

 

[hewl]

Also Livvy. I wouldn't be overly concerned about not pressing charges (the domestic abuse apologists out there may disagree) as this happens on many occasions because the sufferer fears the repurcussions. The fact that the police referred you to victim support is a clear indication that they understand your situation. Your solicitor will no doubt make this clear in court.

What exactly are you not understanding?

Even if she was in immediate danger the Police and Magistrates will want to know why she felt her ONLY option was to drive whilst drunk!

They will want to know:

1. Why she didnt call the Police or someone else (she had her phone)?

2. Why she didnt run (it takes time to open a car and start the engine)?

3. Why she didnt run to the nearest neighbour for help?

4. Was she screaming for help?

ALL these questions and more will be presented to her should she go with this defence. So what exactly are the answer? Or do you want her to be interrogated?

You cant say she is innocent because she is a victim of domestic abuse. Get real!

 

[AlanT73]

Frankly, you are wrong.

A defence of necessity does not require someone to be physically chasing you down the street, or make a specific threat. It requires the defendant to have the reasonable belief that they could be seriously harmed, and that the decision to drive was proportional to that threat.

It's not appropriate to push the OP but the basis of domestic violence is that a partner emotionally controls a partner by harming them. It is impossible to judge what the OP thought from outside the relationship but it is ridiculous, insulting and wrong to claim it is perjury for someone in an abusive relationship to say they feared for their safety at any moment, forget when chucked out the house in the early hours

The key element here is "It requires the defendant to have the reasonable belief that they could be seriously harmed, and that the decision to drive was proportional to that threat."

You clearly fit into this category and your solicitor should ensure that this fact is highlighted in court.

 

[price1367]

I think we would need to have full details before we or more importantly a court could decide if there was sufficient threat of immediate violence for the op to drive in this case, and she has not elaborated. In any case if it is shown to be an emergency thin this is not a defence, just a reason to not disqualify and there would still be a conviction recorded. Duress carries a higher threat being fear d but once raised then it would be for the prosecution to rebut the claim.
i did wonder if the special reason of minimal distance would apply though. That would depend on how far she drove and who was about who could have been put at risk at that time. If it is a cul de sac and she only drove, say, 50 yards then she could try this. Reading through what she put initially though, she says that she realised that what she was doing was wrong, so went to turn round. The prosecution would argue that she should have stopped, and by turning round she was driving for longer than necessary. It also puts the “I had to drive off to escape” angle to bed, because by driving back she was going back into danger........
I think it best to do what she indicates, plead guilty but with the circumstances as mitigation to try to keep the ban to a minimum. Otherwise the solicitor and court costs are going to climb quickly, with no real prospect of success, just a hope that it works out ok.

 

[AlanT73]

I think we would need to have full details before we or more importantly a court could decide if there was sufficient threat of immediate violence for the op to drive in this case, and she has not elaborated. In any case if it is shown to be an emergency thin this is not a defence, just a reason to not disqualify and there would still be a conviction recorded. Duress carries a higher threat being fear d but once raised then it would be for the prosecution to rebut the claim.
i did wonder if the special reason of minimal distance would apply though. That would depend on how far she drove and who was about who could have been put at risk at that time. If it is a cul de sac and she only drove, say, 50 yards then she could try this. Reading through what she put initially though, she says that she realised that what she was doing was wrong, so went to turn round. The prosecution would argue that she should have stopped, and by turning round she was driving for longer than necessary. It also puts the “I had to drive off to escape” angle to bed, because by driving back she was going back into danger........
I think it best to do what she indicates, plead guilty but with the circumstances as mitigation to try to keep the ban to a minimum. Otherwise the solicitor and court costs are going to climb quickly, with no real prospect of success, just a hope that it works out ok.

Wise words as always. You have already said you intend to plead guilty. Hopefully the circumstances will keep and ban (if imposed) to a minimum. You have escaped an abusive, controlling relationship. Short term pain will result in long term gain as your rebuild your life.

 

[Sillylivvy]

Thanks for your messages. I am not in anyway trying to get out what I have done. Just needed a bit of support as very scared as to how this will affect me moving forward.
The police called yesterday to check I am ok and to see if I needed support re the domestic side of it.
They know what has happened during the year and 4 months we were together. She told me that I have 2 years to take it further. Can’t cope with that at the moment.
I have instructed a solicitor.
I have read how this can affect my home insurance?
Scared if I tell my boss it will make me look in a bad light and when redundancies come up- I will be for the high jump. I have worked there for 18 years so very loyal. Thankfully don’t need to drive as can work from home and have worked out a route to get there on days they need me in.
It’s a shocking event that has made me realise how your life change change in a heartbeat.
I will never be so stupid again - hopefully ending the toxic relationship will help too.
No one who claimed to love you -should grab you and throw you out of their house in your pj’s In the middle of the night.
Sad ?

 

[hewl]

Thanks for your messages. I am not in anyway trying to get out what I have done. Just needed a bit of support as very scared as to how this will affect me moving forward.
The police called yesterday to check I am ok and to see if I needed support re the domestic side of it.
They know what has happened during the year and 4 months we were together. She told me that I have 2 years to take it further. Can’t cope with that at the moment.
I have instructed a solicitor.
I have read how this can affect my home insurance?
Scared if I tell my boss it will make me look in a bad light and when redundancies come up- I will be for the high jump. I have worked there for 18 years so very loyal. Thankfully don’t need to drive as can work from home and have worked out a route to get there on days they need me in.
It’s a shocking event that has made me realise how your life change change in a heartbeat.
I will never be so stupid again - hopefully ending the toxic relationship will help too.
No one who claimed to love you -should grab you and throw you out of their house in your pj’s In the middle of the night.
Sad ?

I understand completely what you are saying. I have simply tried to be realistic about the drink driving charge. I feel the domestic violence and the drink driving are seperate in this case. You had options despite being outside. This will be questioned by Magistrates.

As stated it is completely up to you how you proceed.

Good luck