(Admiral) Received the Consent and indemnity letter - seeking advice

[Hardluck]

Hello all. Long time lurker! Have read plenty of threads here the last two years since my own incident.

I had a crash in 2020 that involved no injuries. I had my court date, received my DR10 and short ban and moved on with life. Admiral cancelled my insurance and said they'd come knocking someday.
Bar reading around here I did nothing past that, hoping to wait it out quietly.

Unfortunately on 11/3 this year I received the much dreaded consent and indemnity email to fill out. I have been incredibly busy with my new career this last two weeks and have finally had the chance to sit down and look into sorting this out.

I have no qualms with having to pay- but as others have said in the past, I want it to be a fair and accurate amount. It is highly unlikely I could drag this out for 4-6 years, nor would I want the stress hanging over me. Citizens Advice were no help, and I have contacted two local free advice firms (one already got back to me saying they can't advise, they only deal with housing, which is grand).

I am seeking any guidance on beginning this process in the right way to mitigate the impact as I can. I replied to the insurance handler to assure him I would be in touch after seeking advice, but also to query the claims amount that I found against the incident on my new motor proposal confirmation (I know I know, why go back to them. Means to an end and I shall be staying well away after this policy year)- I had not been told what this was, and the handler has not replied to enlighten me. Is this likely to be the amount they want me to pay back? It would be quite disingenuous for them to be asking me to sign the indemnity, saying they don't know what the costs will be, if they have already concluded that area of business?

I am really just unsure of the best approach. I am not opposed to signing in the sense that the bill must be paid, but I am not willing to sign unlimited liability if doing so would prevent me from demanding evidence of costs and attempts to reduce them. I've attached the form they wish me to sign as I'm sure it's ever-changing. Would I be far wrong from writing to the handler tomorrow to say as above and demand clarity on what this claim amount is? My deadline for signing is 1/4, so the coming Friday.

Thank you in advance for any help you might give, always appreciated!

 

[Luna2000]

Hello all. Long time lurker! Have read plenty of threads here the last two years since my own incident.

Back in early Feb 2020 I had a low-speed crash into 2-3 parked vehicles at approximately 2am. No people about, no injury thankfully. I had my court date, received my DR10 and short ban and moved on with life. Admiral cancelled my insurance and said they'd come knocking someday.
Bar reading around here I did nothing past that, hoping to wait it out quietly.

Unfortunately on 11/3 this year I received the much dreaded consent and indemnity email to fill out. I have been incredibly busy with my new career this last two weeks and have finally had the chance to sit down and look into sorting this out.

I have no qualms with having to pay- but as others have said in the past, I want it to be a fair and accurate amount. It is highly unlikely I could drag this out for 4-6 years, nor would I want the stress hanging over me. Citizens Advice were no help, and I have contacted two local free advice firms (one already got back to me saying they can't advise, they only deal with housing, which is grand).

I am seeking any guidance on beginning this process in the right way to mitigate the impact as I can. I replied to the insurance handler to assure him I would be in touch after seeking advice, but also to query a claims amount for £9495 I found against the incident on my new motor proposal confirmation (I know I know, why go back to them. Means to an end and I shall be staying well away after this policy year)- I had not been told what this was, and the handler has not replied to enlighten me. Is this likely to be the amount they want me to pay back? It would be quite disingenuous for them to be asking me to sign the indemnity, saying they don't know what the costs will be, if they have already concluded that area of business?

I am really just unsure of the best approach. I am not opposed to signing in the sense that the bill must be paid, but I am not willing to sign unlimited liability if doing so would prevent me from demanding evidence of costs and attempts to reduce them. I've attached the form they wish me to sign as I'm sure it's ever-changing. Would I be far wrong from writing to the handler tomorrow to say as above and demand clarity on what this claim amount is? My deadline for signing is 1/4, so the coming Friday.

Thank you in advance for any help you might give, always appreciated!

I have never been in this situation, but just reading through this seems to imply you are accepting unlimited costs of the accident, whatever they may be.

It seems a very open ended agreement.

One other question I would ask them is why you need to authorise this in any case? Surely Admiral are the 'injured' party as they must pay all relevant 3rd party costs and the condition in your policy already allows them to seek re-dress from you if the accident was caused by Drink Driving.

I personally don't think there is a legal requirement on you to sign this, and despite it saying in a few instances they EUI will be acting on your behalf, they won't. They will be acting on |Admirals behalf.

 

[GGG]

I didn't sign mine and it made no difference, so my advice is don't sign it, if you do, you are agreeing to any costs levelled at you.

 

[Hardluck]

Yes it's a bizarre "agreement" to forward and does come across as nullying. I will be writing a lengthy email asking the handler to address a bunch of points before I would even consider signing such a document, and if they can't meet those demands then I simply won't sign. I expect I will use their responses (or lack of) to refuse ti sign the indemnity. As long as I can challenge costs after doing so that's all I care about- I jusy don't want to not sign, and then they refuse to communicate or provide evidence. But I do remember reading about perceived cooperation from both parties being important if it goes as far as court. What follows is a "greatest hits" from the knowledgeable folks on here. It's all well and good to say "read the 26 page thread, but time itseld is a precious resource and flipping back between 5/6 threads at various pages is horrific. I'll write my response to the handler based on these.



"Ask for full details of the claim. Ask to be kept informed of what your insurer is doing. Ask for evidence of your insurer trying to reduce the claim.

Challenge everything.

Communicate via letter. Don't rush anything.

Do not ignore any letters from the small claims court. You should get plenty of advance warning of court action. Court action rarely seems to happen.

Your insurer will try to arrange a repayment plan. If you have reasonable income and assets then don't disclose this to the insurer.

If you have little or no spare income for repayments then tell your insurer. Be prepared to end up repaying what you can but only after you have had a chance to challenge everything in the claim. The insurer will almost certainly reduce the amount they are asking for so hold out as long as you can to get the lowest figure. Then make them a lower offer."


"What they did is no different to how they manage any other claim. Cheapest approach, managed by numpties, all left up to TP Claims Management company. They took the others parties engineers report and medical reports and failed to conduct their own independent investigations to confirm the whiplash claims, no police report, no written statements from anybody. Admiral make pre-medical offers to PI claimaints, to keep costs down."


"Have Admiral actually employed any of their own experts to look at the damage or personal injury claim. Did they make a pre-medical offer to the PI claimants?

Was the accident serious enough to cause real injury, or was it an opportunity for the passengers to cash in? Are there any witness statements, or police report?"



"

just questioned and challenged everything about the claim. I found out the other drivers car had been written off twice before and Admiral hadn’t bothered to check. They offered pre medical settlements for whiplash. They didn’t gave the police report to check the circumstances of the accident and who was in the car.

They paid more in excessive car hire charges than the car was worth. They didn’t corroborate the damage report and couldn’t provide adequate photographs of the damage to the other car. They also got their facts wrong and sent letters they shouldn’t have and I pulled them up on it."



"

My suggestion is that you say you cannot sign a document that could potentially give you an unlimited liability. You want to see estimates first.

It would be reasonable to specify:

Is the vehicle to be written off? If so what is the value?

Have 3 estimates been supplied (or a minimum of 2)

If not written off, what steps with the insurance company take to ensure that only the damage from YOUR accident is being claimed for?

Is a hire care being provided, and if so, does it match, but not exceed the type of vehicle that has been damaged?

What is the daily cost and is there a limit on the number of days car hire being claimed?

Confirmation that there is no personal injury claim. (I seem to remember that you hit a parked car, but there have been cases of injuries mysteriously appearing over damage to an apparently unattended vehicle.....!)"

"Is the vehicle still drivable? Has the vehicle already been repaired?
It doesn’t have to be ‘sign or else” you are entitled to ask for some idea of the commitment you would be making.
You wouldn’t sign a contract for a car you were buying if you were told: “we cant give you the full cost yet, because there may be extras added but we will advise you the final price after you have accepted the car."

"
What you need to do then is make damn sure they don't overcharge or take the line of least resistance.
Normally a claims management company deal with the claim, your insurer pays up with little or no challenge.
You want to make sure they don't follow this default path and do everything to ensure the costs are fair."

 

[GGG]

I've read it all pal and it all makes sense, regardless of which way you deal with this, I would not sign an agreement to unlimited liability, think this way, they don't know their getting any money back off you, so why would they pay more than they have to, to settle the claim.

 

[Hardluck]

"Ask them for their own engineers report, any police reports, evidence of the number of passengers, their medical reports, etc, etc. Unless they've upped their game it'll full of holes."

"They may have had a hire car supplied by the claims management company. They are always inflated costs and they shouldn't keep the car any longer than necessary and needs to be a like for like temporary replacement."

" (a) Are they required by law to settle the Third Party claims - Answer YES they can't simply walk away and then (b) Can they legally pass these costs onto the driver and or policy holder - Answer YES if they have a clause in their policy that states that then (c) Can they simply pass on any costs they want to - completely unlimited - to the driver/policy holder - I doubt it and (d) if they have a policy to pass on costs are they legally obliged to have acted in good faith to minimise these costs to their customer."

"

Insurance companies generally outsource claims to a Claims Management company because it's easier. They used to make a lot of money in commission for passing it on. Often individuals in the insurance company, police or other services would make money from passing details to ambulance chasers. I think they've stopped all that but the claims process still stinks.

Find out if there is a claims management company involved. Ask who they are and get copies of all the bills. Make it clear you are not prepared to line the pockets of third parties.

Ask for Admiral's damage report and their medial report. There won't be any. They'll say it keeps the costs lower. Fine if they are paying out because it's a reciprocal benefit between insurance companies.

Ask them if they made a pre-medical offer for the injury - They'll often pay up without any medical evidence.
Soft tissue injuries are notoriously difficult if not impossible to prove. The claims management company use sympathetic medics who will obviously report soft tissue damage. The medic gets repeat business and the claims co cream off a portion of the claim. It's corrupt.

If your other half has signed the indemnity form they shouldn't (in my opinion) be coming after the policyholder. If they still threaten to come after the policyholder I would class that as unfair intimidation. Ask them outright (in writing) if they will still hold you liable. The answer will lead to other questions and challenges.

Ask them if the written off vehicle has been scrapped or sold on - you could do your own HPI check. I did and found the £1500 old banger my son wrote off had be written of twice before. It devalues the vehicle. Admiral hadn't bothered to check. If it has been sold that amount (in my opinion) should be taken off the claim.

Consider putting in an official complaint and follow that up by raising a case with the FOS if Admiral don't satisfy your complaint.

As policyholder you should make sure no claim is logged against you. Make it clear that they have not covered the claim with the policy and therefore they should not impact your claims history - I won this point through the FOS - I can send you the case number if you need it.

Having signed the indemnity form ask what they have done to reduce the value of the claim."

 

[Hardluck]

I've read it all pal and it all makes sense, regardless of which way you deal with this, I would not sign an agreement to unlimited liability, think this way, they don't know their getting any money back off you, so why would they pay more than they have to, to settle the claim.

A very good point I have seen mentioned previously in the megathread. But I did also come across link to a FOS case from Depressed Dad where they used the indemnity to argue that Admiral were not doing their utmost to reduce costs, and used this angle to have the FOS (iirc) half the repayment costs.
I am not a expert on traffic law or the RTA, but I am fairly well practiced in citing and arguing law as part of my new career. I am wondering if it is worth me writing a second version of the letter where I agree to sign based on the emphasis that, according to their own wording, they will undertake all means to minimise cost. Then, when they ineveitably don't, I have a solid place to open a complaint from, through them first and then the FOS. It'll make things more of a chore for them and could be useful in further reducing the end cost I think.
I am going to write these up in the morning and try to talk to the CAB again- they havent been particularly helpful up to now.

 

[GGG]

My opinion, I wouldn't sign it regardless. Good luck whichever way you decide.

 

[GGG]

They came back to me wanting 14k I offered 7k as full and final settlement, they accepted.

 

[Hardluck]

Thank you bud, I shall weigh your words proper as I decide tomorrow. I went back to reread your tribulations- nightmare! "At least" they accepted the halved amount- shows how much it's just free money to them.

I will also aim to get the bill halved as well.

 

[Depressed Dad]

A very good point I have seen mentioned previously in the megathread. But I did also come across link to a FOS case from Depressed Dad where they used the indemnity to argue that Admiral were not doing their utmost to reduce costs, and used this angle to have the FOS (iirc) half the repayment costs.
I am not a expert on traffic law or the RTA, but I am fairly well practiced in citing and arguing law as part of my new career. I am wondering if it is worth me writing a second version of the letter where I agree to sign based on the emphasis that, according to their own wording, they will undertake all means to minimise cost. Then, when they ineveitably don't, I have a solid place to open a complaint from, through them first and then the FOS. It'll make things more of a chore for them and could be useful in further reducing the end cost I think.
I am going to write these up in the morning and try to talk to the CAB again- they havent been particularly helpful up to now.

I agree the 'Megathread' has become a unwieldy and hard to find the relevant information.

If you can navigate case law and get to grips with the Road Traffic Act and the MIB process for uninsured drivers it could enable you to push back on Admiral from a stronger position.

Have a read of this Identifying the correct defendant and see if you agree with me that Admiral act as the Article 75 insurer.

They act as the MIB would. Interesting that the MIB will only cover uninsured losses. Therefore if the car you hit is covered by a fully comprehensive policy then the claimant needs to claim off their own policy. Likewise if injured parties have personal injury cover.
MIB will cover lost NCD.

Worth asking Admiral if they are acting as RTA insurer or MIB insurer.

 

[Hardluck]

I agree the 'Megathread' has become a unwieldy and hard to find the relevant information.

If you can navigate case law and get to grips with the Road Traffic Act and the MIB process for uninsured drivers it could enable you to push back on Admiral from a stronger position.

Have a read of this Identifying the correct defendant and see if you agree with me that Admiral act as the Article 75 insurer.

They act as the MIB would. Interesting that the MIB will only cover uninsured losses. Therefore if the car you hit is covered by a fully comprehensive policy then the claimant needs to claim off their own policy. Likewise if injured parties have personal injury cover.
MIB will cover lost NCD.

Worth asking Admiral if they are acting as RTA insurer or MIB insurer.

The issue is always time with these things. I've not had a down moment since posting last- I've had to deal with this mostly in lunch breaks- so I'm not well read around it unfortunately.

I received no replies to any of my emails. I received a lovely threatening letter demanding £15,500 in 21 days or else, and on repeat attempts to call was hung up on. I filed a complaint with Admiral about their dire communication skills, and apparently magically received a letter to my home today about it. Still being at work and not knowing this I called again and, after a hangup and two transfers, finally got to speak to a snotty woman who made an extremely poor apology and read out today's letter, as if that was supposed to be the communication for the last 5 emails they have ignored.

When I get home I will update further, but next I will be writing another letter-in-email (I like how easy they are to evidence over posted) referencing the information/expectations letter-email I had sent in late March before the indemnity form and requesting this time they read it and provide the required information.

If they want me to pay a penny they can bloody well justify it.

 

[Depressed Dad]

They seem to be more stroppy and threatening these days. Almost certainly have staffing issues and people WFH.
They indulged me with back and forth communication and tried (but often failed) to answer my questions.

Court is a last resort. A judge won't look kindly on them if they haven't had a proper discussion with you about the amount being claimed.
No guarantee, but I suspect the 21 days will pass and the 'or else' won't happen for while yet.

 

[Hardluck]

They seem to be more stroppy and threatening these days. Almost certainly have staffing issues and people WFH.
They indulged me with back and forth communication and tried (but often failed) to answer my questions.

Court is a last resort. A judge won't look kindly on them if they haven't had a proper discussion with you about the amount being claimed.
No guarantee, but I suspect the 21 days will pass and the 'or else' won't happen for while yet.

I expect so! They won't look good having ignored a month of emails, records of hanging up on the customer, on top of the threatening tone of their eventual communication. The complaint will go forward regardless of their attitude now, the damage is done and they've caused me distress so I will press them for it.

I look forward to writing my next letter to them. We shall see if they bother to reply this time. Now I know they are indeed receiving my emails and are just not bothering to reply, their 28 days (I misread before) is redundant. Here's their basic (unevidenced or justified) breakdown:

Third party total loss: £8930
Third party credit hire: £3376
Third party recovery and storage: £624
Third party solicitor fees: £100
Court fee: £1360.2
Our solicitor fees: £1111.2

My immediate question was "why are they charging me solicitor fees, why did they need a solicitor, surely arguing some amount and incurring such fees is not acting to minimise costs in my interest?". I shall reattach my expectations letter and write them a new slew of questions for them to answer, and request evidence/justification for each cost.

 

[Depressed Dad]

Interesting. Did the third party take Admiral to court? There's a court fee so it seems likely.

If that's the case I wonder why they haven't named you too, jointly and severally with Admiral.

The 'normal' process as I understand it is that Admiral refuse to provide cover (and/or cancel the policy) having invoked the exclusion clause. The third party takes you to court. Admiral step in and ask to be co-defendants, primarily to provide legal support to keep costs down because they know they have to settle the claim if you don't settle the resulting CCJ within 7 days.

It never seems to follow that path.

Admiral have some explaining to do and need to provide a breakdown of the costs.

Credit Hire costs are high, as usual.

 

[Hardluck]

Interesting. Did the third party take Admiral to court? There's a court fee so it seems likely.

If that's the case I wonder why they haven't named you too, jointly and severally with Admiral.

The 'normal' process as I understand it is that Admiral refuse to provide cover (and/or cancel the policy) having invoked the exclusion clause. The third party takes you to court. Admiral step in and ask to be co-defendants, primarily to provide legal support to keep costs down because they know they have to settle the claim if you don't settle the resulting CCJ within 7 days.

It never seems to follow that path.

Admiral have some explaining to do and need to provide a breakdown of the costs.

Credit Hire costs are high, as usual.

This I shall find out, they have a lot of explaining to do! They've not bothered to contact me in the two years since the original "we may contact you...", until the indemnity letter, plenty of time for them to cock it up I expect.

The hire costs are ludicrous. I will be interested to see the defence there and subsequently how it can reduced to a sensible level.

 

[Hardluck]

Still working on my next letter and whatnot, just an update to say Admiral upheld my complaint- whilst skirting around it and not admitting that they hadn't responded to single email, just blamed covid.

Apparently someone their end had set up a callback for today at my request- I certainly hadn't. All my communications will be by CC'd email, and I shall tell them as much if they call me again and I'm not in work at that moment.

 

[Guygibson]

I had this with a different insurance company they paid out for a parked car i hit 3500.00.

Then 6 months later a phone call out the blue saying I had to pay back the money and they said they didn't have to pay out the 3500.00 but they did it in good will .
I just said no you didn't pay it in good will you had to pay out as 3rd party.

They said they was taking me to court and I would have a ccj next to my name if I didn't pay up.

I said crack on not bothered about a ccj and I would end up paying them back 5 pound a month that was 2 years ago never heard from them again.

Insurance companies are t**sers

 

[Hardluck]

I had this with a different insurance company they paid out for a parked car i hit 3500.00.

Then 6 months later a phone call out the blue saying I had to pay back the money and they said they didn't have to pay out the 3500.00 but they did it in good will .
I just said no you didn't pay it in good will you had to pay out as 3rd party.

They said they was taking me to court and I would have a ccj next to my name if I didn't pay up.

I said crack on not bothered about a ccj and I would end up paying them back 5 pound a month that was 2 years ago never heard from them again.

Insurance companies are t**sers

Insurance companies can indeed be tossers, but I'd rather not have my credit standing and chances of obtaining a mortgage in the next few years destroyed. This is terrible advice and I won't be taking it.

 

[Guygibson]

Insurance companies can indeed be tossers, but I'd rather not have my credit standing and chances of obtaining a mortgage in the next few years destroyed. This is terrible advice and I won't be taking it.

Worked for me saved myself 3500 they was never taking me to court they lie