Admiral Insurance Drink and Drugs policy

Convicted Driver Insurance
Hi Jon1123.

Who was your insurer? If they were aware of the nature of the incident then most likely will have laid out to the third party for costs.

It seems like some companies have either caught up with people in under a year to recover costs, but for others, nothing has materialised for over a year or two.
Hi,
It was with Churchill. But in my case I wasn't charged by the police so not sure if Churchill have an argument to not pay the claim
 
Hi,
It was with Churchill. But in my case I wasn't charged by the police so not sure if Churchill have an argument to not pay the claim
Ah okay.

Well if it wasnt reported as a dd offence then I suppose Churchill are none the wiser to the nature of the incident.

Did they cancel your policy?
 
Ah okay.

Well if it wasnt reported as a dd offence then I suppose Churchill are none the wiser to the nature of the incident.

Did they cancel your policy?
I wanted to be open and honest and told them to put the claim on hold till I get a response from the police which I did and forwarded the email to them. But now theyre saying thats not enough and they have to receive the response directly. They have been waiting "apparently" for 4 months now for a response...
 
Hi,
It was with Churchill. But in my case I wasn't charged by the police so not sure if Churchill have an argument to not pay the claim
I can't find a specific drink and drugs exclusion in the current Churchill motor policy. You should check the policy document they sent you.

Presumably you blew over 35mg at the roadside and under 40mg at the station?

If Admiral were your insurer they'd pursue you for blowing over 35mg whether the police prosecute you or not.
 
I can't find a specific drink and drugs exclusion in the current Churchill motor policy. You should check the policy document they sent you.

Presumably you blew over 35mg at the roadside and under 40mg at the station?

If Admiral were your insurer they'd pursue you for blowing over 35mg whether the police prosecute you or not.
Thanks will look at my documents. I went straight to hospital from the crash so didnt even do a breathelyser. They took a blood test which didn't return within the 6 month time period, so case was dropped, i.e probably due to lack of evidence.
 
Thanks will look at my documents. I went straight to hospital from the crash so didnt even do a breathelyser. They took a blood test which didn't return within the 6 month time period, so case was dropped, i.e probably due to lack of evidence.
I guess they might use the blood results against you even though they timed out for a conviction. That's if the police share them with Churchill.

Does the claim involve third party property or injuries?

The current Churchill policy document would exclude you from claiming legal costs or a personal accident payout.
 
I guess they might use the blood results against you even though they timed out for a conviction. That's if the police share them with Churchill.

Does the claim involve third party property or injuries?

The current Churchill policy document would exclude you from claiming legal costs or a personal accident payout.
Yes i thought they might be able to use the blood result, but then is there not an argument that says, why didn't the police use it to prosecute? The police have messed up and surely they wouldn't want anyone else knowing that...
 
Just to follow up on my saga, insurance sent letter in Jan saying they wanted £14800 off me to recoup there outlay, I offered £7500 as one off full and final payment and they excepted.
They always seem prepared to negotiate a much reduced figure.
 
I work within the claims department of a commercial insurer in the Large Loss department, my experience is 15 years in the industry.

Your son made a contractual agreement of which he did not adhere to therefore when he took out the policy he gave them the right to pursue him in the event he invalidated that agreement.

I understand your son made a mistake but he needs to accept that and pay the claim like an responsible adult, I have a heart of course but you cannot expect someone else to pay for your damages if you are intoxicated at the wheel, he can setup a payment plan. That being said most insurers will either concede that has no assets to liquidate or they will issue legal proceedings and a judgement will be filed against him.


I hope they merely give up but insurers are becoming less forgiving, a judge can also order for money to be paid from future inheritance or equity in any future property etc.

He is best off paying and moving on with his life god knows it takes long enough anyway without that bearing on you.

edit; I read your recent post I’m glad you paid it and time to put it behind you! Good luck.
 
I work within the claims department of a commercial insurer in the Large Loss department, my experience is 15 years in the industry.

Your son made a contractual agreement of which he did not adhere to therefore when he took out the policy he gave them the right to pursue him in the event he invalidated that agreement.

I understand your son made a mistake but he needs to accept that and pay the claim like an responsible adult, I have a heart of course but you cannot expect someone else to pay for your damages if you are intoxicated at the wheel, he can setup a payment plan. That being said most insurers will either concede that has no assets to liquidate or they will issue legal proceedings and a judgement will be filed against him.


I hope they merely give up but insurers are becoming less forgiving, a judge can also order for money to be paid from future inheritance or equity in any future property etc.

He is best off paying and moving on with his life god knows it takes long enough anyway without that bearing on you.

edit; I read your recent post I’m glad you paid it and time to put it behind you! Good luck.

There's rarely such thing as an motor accident as in there is almost always someone to blame.

In the vast majority of RTCs someone has made a mistake.

Often deliberately, whether it be knowingly D&D, looking at your phone, changing the SatNav, driving too fast, shouting at the wife or kids, looking at an attractive girl, falling asleep etc, etc, etc.

My son didn't knowingly enter a contract. I did apparently. I didn't know it was for unlimited liability. I didn't know what the RTA had in it. I didn't know about legal precedent set in the Bernaldez case. Now I realise I don't know about difference between RTA and article 75 insurers. Admiral had it wrong and I think they still bend the rules.

I didn't know how incompetent Admiral were at settling a claim and trying to recoup the exorbitant, probably fraudulent, or at least exaggerated claims for PI and credit hire.

I didn't know Admiral set the bar lower than a DD conviction.

You'd perhaps know in retail insurance very few people read the T&C's. It's sold on price and value added services not the exclusion clauses.

Not every insurer has these exclusions. Admiral still make £500m per year and are typically the cheapest. Actuaries do their job to factor in the losses for all reasons.

My son and many others have broken the law and been punished. The sentence for murder could have less consequences than having all your assets taken away.

So you know where I think you can stick the self righteous BS.
 
I work within the claims department of a commercial insurer in the Large Loss department, my experience is 15 years in the industry.

Your son made a contractual agreement of which he did not adhere to therefore when he took out the policy he gave them the right to pursue him in the event he invalidated that agreement.

I understand your son made a mistake but he needs to accept that and pay the claim like an responsible adult, I have a heart of course but you cannot expect someone else to pay for your damages if you are intoxicated at the wheel, he can setup a payment plan. That being said most insurers will either concede that has no assets to liquidate or they will issue legal proceedings and a judgement will be filed against him.


I hope they merely give up but insurers are becoming less forgiving, a judge can also order for money to be paid from future inheritance or equity in any future property etc.

He is best off paying and moving on with his life god knows it takes long enough anyway without that bearing on you.

edit; I read your recent post I’m glad you paid it and time to put it behind you! Good luck.
Hi Cb101, From your experience within insurance industry, how long or how many years (i assume 6 years from date of incident) can an insurer take you to court or pursue claim costs. please advise. Thanks for your response. Sam
 
Hi
I'm in a similar situation as everyone else on here, my son died in November and I started drinking a lot I had a bit of a mental breakdown a few weeks ago and got behind the wheel drunk I'm not proud off it but I didn't care at the time I wanted to end it anyway I've got the right help I need now and trying to put a line under it the problem is I hit a few cars and a wall and now my insurance want the money back for third party claims I'm thinking the is going to be in the 10ks and they also want me to sign an indemnity form, should I sign it? And is there anything I can do, I'll be honest it's getting to me
 
I am interested to hear from anyone in a similar situation where the Admiral Group of insurers which includes Admiral, Bell, Diamond and Elephant are pursuing you for the repayment of third party costs.
Specifically under their Drink and Drugs exclusion in their policy (section 5?)

You may also see Admiral Group under the name of EUI limited.

I am not a legal expert, just a concerned parent and a person who dislikes injustice.

I suggest people read this http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2011/1657.html

EUI lost the case and had to pay up for £200k of damage to a property that one of their policyholders did in a suicide attempt. EUI unsuccessfully tried to avoid their obligations under the Road Traffic Act. what did arise in this case was reference to Ruiz Bernaldez http://www.mibclaim.co.uk/resources...l-proceedings-ruiz-bernldez-case-c12994-1996/ Under Spanish national law the insurer can avoid the policy if the driver is intoxicated. The Spanish Court referred questions to the European Court where I believe (with my laymans lack of legal knowledge) the direction was that Bernaldez insurer had to pay the TP costs but they had the right to pursue Bernaldez for repayment. The European part of it relates to Directives that standardise the approach in every EU country.

I believe this is the case that has made EUI (Admiral Group) think they can get away with their Drink and Drug Exclusion.

I have yet to find a case that has gone to court in the UK where Admiral have succeeded. AFAIK under UK law if you have a valid certificate of insurance the insurer has to pay for third party damage and injury but under the RTA, Section 148 they cannot include terms that avoid the policy based on certain criteria (subsection 2) including the physical and mental state of the driver.

As far as I have seen so far only the Admiral Group have this specific term and a quick check of other major insurers policy documents shows that no one else does it. I suspect because Admiral have a more aggressive business model and believe they can intimidate people into paying. I can only speculate that other insurers don't do it because it is not supported under UK Law.

I may have got this partially or completely wrong so more than happy to be corrected. In fact I am seeking clarity from anyone about whether Admiral's Drink and Drugs terms are enforceable under UK law and whether a UK court will take the Bernaldez case into consideration when making a judgment.

My advice is to call the FSA and complain about the unfair term in the contract - It is a non-negotiated contract that puts the consumer at a disadvantage - you are taking on unlimited liability. I think the highest motor insurance claim is £20m.

Also consider complaining to the Financial Ombudsman Service http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm if you believe you have a valid complaint against your insurer.

Please PM me. I am happy to share what I know and especially interested in any cases that have actually made it to court or are on the process of going to court.
Hi there I am in this situation now i haven't signed the anemity form and I'm wondering what to do I mean if I sign I'm signing for unlimited costs have you had any other information on this matter?
 
Hi there I am in this situation now i haven't signed the anemity form and I'm wondering what to do I mean if I sign I'm signing for unlimited costs have you had any other information on this matter?

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and it sounds like you've been through a really tough time. I'm sorry for the loss of your son.

You 'signed up' for unlimited liability due to the DD exclusion cause when you took the policy out. No one looks into this when they take out the policy and of course you think you'll never drink and drive.

The indemnity is just an extra document used to get you to agree to repay the costs. Admiral say it helps keep the costs down.

It is unclear what the real purpose of signing the indemnity form is because it looks like Admiral (is that your insurer?) will try to get the third party to sign a form to let them handle the claim. It should keep the costs a bit lower.

Some people sign the form, others don't. As far as I can see it does not affect the outcome.

My advice is the same to everyone in this situation. Read through this thread and others to get an idea.

Ask for full details of the claim. Ask to be kept informed of what your insurer is doing. Ask for evidence of your insurer trying to reduce the claim.

Challenge everything.

Communicate via letter. Don't rush anything.

Do not ignore any letters from the small claims court. You should get plenty of advance warning of court action. Court action rarely seems to happen.

Your insurer will try to arrange a repayment plan. If you have reasonable income and assets then don't disclose this to the insurer.

If you have little or no spare income for repayments then tell your insurer. Be prepared to end up repaying what you can but only after you have had a chance to challenge everything in the claim. The insurer will almost certainly reduce the amount they are asking for so hold out as long as you can to get the lowest figure. Then make them a lower offer.

I am not qualified to provide legal advice so I recommend you seek proper help from a solicitor or Citizens Advice, or Step Change
Unfortunately most solicitors seem reluctant to get involved but you might be able to find one.

Stay strong, stay calm. Maybe find a friend or relation prepared to help you through this. This typically takes months or years dependant on how resilient and determined you are.
 
I'm sorry to hear of your situation and it sounds like you've been through a really tough time. I'm sorry for the loss of your son.

You 'signed up' for unlimited liability due to the DD exclusion cause when you took the policy out. No one looks into this when they take out the policy and of course you think you'll never drink and drive.

The indemnity is just an extra document used to get you to agree to repay the costs. Admiral say it helps keep the costs down.

It is unclear what the real purpose of signing the indemnity form is because it looks like Admiral (is that your insurer?) will try to get the third party to sign a form to let them handle the claim. It should keep the costs a bit lower.

Some people sign the form, others don't. As far as I can see it does not affect the outcome.

My advice is the same to everyone in this situation. Read through this thread and others to get an idea.

Ask for full details of the claim. Ask to be kept informed of what your insurer is doing. Ask for evidence of your insurer trying to reduce the claim.

Challenge everything.

Communicate via letter. Don't rush anything.

Do not ignore any letters from the small claims court. You should get plenty of advance warning of court action. Court action rarely seems to happen.

Your insurer will try to arrange a repayment plan. If you have reasonable income and assets then don't disclose this to the insurer.

If you have little or no spare income for repayments then tell your insurer. Be prepared to end up repaying what you can but only after you have had a chance to challenge everything in the claim. The insurer will almost certainly reduce the amount they are asking for so hold out as long as you can to get the lowest figure. Then make them a lower offer.

I am not qualified to provide legal advice so I recommend you seek proper help from a solicitor or Citizens Advice, or Step Change
Unfortunately most solicitors seem reluctant to get involved but you might be able to find one.

Stay strong, stay calm. Maybe find a friend or relation prepared to help you through this. This typically takes months or years dependant on how resilient and determined you are.
Also I'm not with admiral but I think they use a similar policy
 
Hi I have a question has anyone faced Admiral Insurance in court over the drink driving where no DD conviction just found to be ?
 
Hi I have a question has anyone faced Admiral Insurance in court over the drink driving where no DD conviction just found to be ?
Not sure I fully understand the question but in all these years I've not heard of Admiral taking a case to court.

The Admiral exclusion clause does not need a DD conviction. It just needs you to be over the prescribed limit. Lower than the level at which the police prosecute.
 
Not sure I fully understand the question but in all these years I've not heard of Admiral taking a case to court.

The Admiral exclusion clause does not need a DD conviction. It just needs you to be over the prescribed limit. Lower than the level at which the police prosecute.
Then who prescribes the limit? If Admiral has written in the clause that your breath reading can't exceed ?? then fine, they can chase you for payment, but if you are under the DD limit for the country you live in, then legally you were still sober.

I know the police can charge you with dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention if you have zero or very little alcohol in your system.

SO do Admiral have a limit written into their policies?
 
Enter code DRINKDRIVING10 during checkout for 10% off
Top