Discrepancy between police reading, court order and mailed documents

Convicted Driver Insurance

ZZTopWereHere

Well Known Member
Hi all,

I'm starting a new thread because it looks like my case is unique in this forum. All the details are in my other posts here, which are all around my mistake at the beginning of this month, but here I'm reporting about a weird surprise when I got back home yesterday evening.

I have received an envelope from the relevant Magistrates Court with all the printed details about disqualification and fine. When I got out of the court on Monday I was given already all the details agreed by the court on some forms where my payment terms were handwritten on a printed form. Moreover, all my case details with the police reading of 47 were printed on the "Initial Details Pros Case".

I am concerned by the following discrepancies between what I've received yesterday and what I was handed and/or told on Monday:

  1. A page titled "Notice about reduction in disqualification" begins with the line "Your alcohol level was 43 in breath". Actually, as per my arrest documents and my initial court documents, the reading was 47.
  2. A page titled "Notice of fine and collection order" states that I must pay the full amount at the beginning on May. However, what was agreed in court, both verbally by the magistrates and both reported in handwriting on the documents I was given there and then, was that I would have paid half in a week (i.e. in 2 days from now) and the other half of the fine a month after my first payment.
  3. Finally, even though the court was happy to leave me with my EU driving licence telling me that I was only disqualified in the UK (and Ireland), in a page titled "Notice of disqualification from driving" there is the following statement: "You must apply to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), Swansea, to renew your licence. You can do this up to 2 months before the disqualification ends so that you can drive as soon as it ends. If you drive without obtaining a new licence, you will be committing a criminal offence".

  • Discrepancy 1 worries me because I have already declared my actual reading both in a US visa application, both to my insurance. I am in the process of getting my ACRO certificate for the visa application and now I'm not sure what I will find there.
  • Discrepancy 2 is clearly annoying even though I could afford to pay the fine in one go, but I'm only left with Monday to contact anyone and clarify this.
  • Discrepancy 3 will not be a concern for a long while but still I've read elsewhere of EU citizens stopped by the police after the end of the driving ban and who were told that they should have "renewed" their licence while it's obvious that the DVLA can't renew a non-UK licence.

The only relevant people I can contact today, on a Saturday, are the local police and the Community Legal Advice for the payment question. However, I strongly suspect that I won't sort out much until Monday. As you can read in my other posts, I didn't involve a solicitor beyond the duty one available on that day but I don't know her details in case it might be worth talking to her.

Has anyone heard of an odd case like mine? Please note that all other details, including the case number and fine amounts, are correct, so it's not a case of a clerk mixing up two unrelated hearings.

All feedback is more than welcome.

Thanks and best regards,
Z
 
Minor update after contacting the only offices available today:

I've called the Community Legal Advice about the payment of the fine, but they told me that they don't deal with court orders and I can only contact the Court on Monday at 9 AM.
I've called the police to ask about my item 3, but they told me to contact the DVLA. The police woman answering the phone seemed puzzled as well by my case even though I'm pretty sure that there must a quite significant number of drivers with EU licences in South-East England...

Any idea, comment, feedback is more than welcome.

Thanks,
Z
 
Hi all,

I'm starting a new thread because it looks like my case is unique in this forum. All the details are in my other posts here, which are all around my mistake at the beginning of this month, but here I'm reporting about a weird surprise when I got back home yesterday evening.

I have received an envelope from the relevant Magistrates Court with all the printed details about disqualification and fine. When I got out of the court on Monday I was given already all the details agreed by the court on some forms where my payment terms were handwritten on a printed form. Moreover, all my case details with the police reading of 47 were printed on the "Initial Details Pros Case".

I am concerned by the following discrepancies between what I've received yesterday and what I was handed and/or told on Monday:

  1. A page titled "Notice about reduction in disqualification" begins with the line "Your alcohol level was 43 in breath". Actually, as per my arrest documents and my initial court documents, the reading was 47.
  2. A page titled "Notice of fine and collection order" states that I must pay the full amount at the beginning on May. However, what was agreed in court, both verbally by the magistrates and both reported in handwriting on the documents I was given there and then, was that I would have paid half in a week (i.e. in 2 days from now) and the other half of the fine a month after my first payment.
  3. Finally, even though the court was happy to leave me with my EU driving licence telling me that I was only disqualified in the UK (and Ireland), in a page titled "Notice of disqualification from driving" there is the following statement: "You must apply to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), Swansea, to renew your licence. You can do this up to 2 months before the disqualification ends so that you can drive as soon as it ends. If you drive without obtaining a new licence, you will be committing a criminal offence".

  • Discrepancy 1 worries me because I have already declared my actual reading both in a US visa application, both to my insurance. I am in the process of getting my ACRO certificate for the visa application and now I'm not sure what I will find there.
  • Discrepancy 2 is clearly annoying even though I could afford to pay the fine in one go, but I'm only left with Monday to contact anyone and clarify this.
  • Discrepancy 3 will not be a concern for a long while but still I've read elsewhere of EU citizens stopped by the police after the end of the driving ban and who were told that they should have "renewed" their licence while it's obvious that the DVLA can't renew a non-UK licence.

The only relevant people I can contact today, on a Saturday, are the local police and the Community Legal Advice for the payment question. However, I strongly suspect that I won't sort out much until Monday. As you can read in my other posts, I didn't involve a solicitor beyond the duty one available on that day but I don't know her details in case it might be worth talking to her.

Has anyone heard of an odd case like mine? Please note that all other details, including the case number and fine amounts, are correct, so it's not a case of a clerk mixing up two unrelated hearings.

All feedback is more than welcome.

Thanks and best regards,
Z


With regard to your fine, pay half on Monday (25 April) as originally agreed and you have the rest of the week to sort out the rest of the payment. They will either say 'yes, sorry our fault, pay the remainder at the end of May as agreed' or 'sorry, we require the full amount at the beginning of May'. The following Monday is Mayday Bank Holiday, so you wouldn't be able to pay the second half until Tuesday (3 May), the day after, anyway.

Don't sweat the small stuff!!
 
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"If you drive without obtaining a new licence, you will be committing a criminal offence"

The DVLA are referring to a UK licence to drive in the UK.

When a ban ends, you have to reapply. You are not automatically sent a new UK licence. If you drive, you would be driving without a valid licence. Not the same as driving whilst disqualified, as the disqualification would have ended; but still an offence.

M
 
Unfortunately mistakes by the Court are becoming more and more common with the increased pressures they are under at the moment. I recently acted for someone who was given a 7 month reduction for attending the rehabilitation course and the Court wrote to her advising it was a 7 week reduction.

The issues you have raised will almost certainly be a result of poor administration by the Court and I would not think they are a great cause for concern at this stage. In respect of the breath reading and the fine, write to the Court to request clarification. You should make the first payment as directed and then make a decision about how best to proceed after the Court respond. I would advise keeping this letter relatively brief, e.g. confirming your full details and when you where in Court and then explain the sentence you believe was ordered and point out the discrepancies. Ask the Court to amend their record with the correct information and send a new letter to you confirming the same.

In respect of the paragraph about applying for your licence, this is simply standard information that is sent out to everyone after a drink driving conviction and has not been tailored to your case. The Court have not ordered you to surrender your licence and the DVLA will contact you if they require anything further.
 
Thanks everyone.

I have made some progress today.

I've called the phone number reported in the header of my notice about the payment terms, and interestingly they did have on file what I was told at the court and not what was printed in the documents later mailed to me. I have then paid today the agreed half of the amount, and they should send me soon a revised document. However, to be in the safe side, I'll pay the other half by the 3rd of May if I don't get any printed update.

The reading mistake, 43 instead of 47, is a minor concern, I have now asked for my urgent ACRO and I'll see what comes up there before any further follow up wrt this detail.

Thanks also for confirming that the page about renewing the licence is just a standard message to holders of UK licences, regardless of which licence I held (again, the odd detail across the whole process I've been through is that no one wanted to actually look at my driving licence, neither the police nor the court).

Thanks again and best regards,
Z
 
Hello again,

Good news, I've received today the letter "Grant of time to pay" where the payment terms match what stated by the court at the end of my hearing.

Only one major hurdle left ahead, the US visa. And also my wife's driving test to get a licence that will allow us to use again our car. The latter is actually the only bright side of my unforgivable mistake, I'm happy that she's enjoying taking driving lessons and she's been very supportive throughout all the time since the night when the police stopped us a few weeks ago.

Thanks and best regards,
Z
 
Hello again,

Good news, I've received today the letter "Grant of time to pay" where the payment terms match what stated by the court at the end of my hearing.

Only one major hurdle left ahead, the US visa. And also my wife's driving test to get a licence that will allow us to use again our car. The latter is actually the only bright side of my unforgivable mistake, I'm happy that she's enjoying taking driving lessons and she's been very supportive throughout all the time since the night when the police stopped us a few weeks ago.

Thanks and best regards,
Z

That's a relief then. People make mistakes (even court officials!), something most of us here can testify to...it wasn't something I'd have gotten too worried about and you have other things to focus on. Good luck with your US visa application, let us know how you get on with your interview and medical...and good luck to your wife with her driving lessons/test!!
 
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The reading mistake, 43 instead of 47, is a minor concern, I have now asked for my urgent ACRO and I'll see what comes up there before any further follow up wrt this detail.
My ACRO certificates (2, as one will stay with the US consulate) arrived in the shortest possible time. On Monday I submitted the online request, Tuesday and Wednesday were the two expected business days for urgent processing, and Thursday they were in my letterbox (I also paid for the fast delivery option).

All details are correct, but there is no breath reading at all. There is a relatively marginal detail like the option to reduce the disqualification via a course, but I was hoping to see the breathalyser results. My insurance asks for that detail, and while they just trust me on that I would like to have a proof of it. Moreover, I was hoping to be able to show also to the US officers that my reading was not sky-high. While this could be inferred by looking at the "disposal" (i.e. the overall sentence), I only have my arrest and prosecution documents showing that detail.

Does anyone know if there is any other circumstance, beyond car insurance details, where I could be asked to prove the breath reading when I was arrested? Even a potential employer might make a difference between a 47 and, say, a 160, but maybe I'm just overthinking.

For the time being I'll hold on to my pre-ACRO documents, but I'm wondering if it's a detail that can could be obtained by requesting another type of document. Maybe it would be in the "Subject Access" document?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and best regards,
Z
 
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