Early Removal Of Disqualification - My Case

[Wickwick]

Ok, I've posted a few times but I'd like to tidy my story up and get some opinion on my way forward.

My history:

1st offence
20th May 2009
Blew 76
Fine £350
17 months ban reduced to 13 months for completing DD awareness course
No accident or aggravating factors

2nd Offence
10th June 2014
Blew 115
Fine £450
48 month ban reduced to 36 months for completing DD awareness course (allowed to take again luckily)
12 Month Supervision order (cancelled after 4 months due to full adherence and no issues identified)
Requirement to attend "Drink Impaired Drivers Programme" 14 week course, 2 hours per week
No accident but aggravating factors being high Alcohol reading and being 2nd offence in 5 years (by days!!!) no other aggravating factors.

So on June 10th I'm eligible under section 42 of the road traffic offenders act 1998 to apply for early removal of disqualification.

Personal circumstances: Despite these two moments of madness I'm not alcohol dependent nor never have been, drink approx 20 units or less a week if i have a drink, sometimes go for months without drinking. Was in a terrible relationship, which ,as I realise is no excuse, but caused me to end up in this situation. Im now out of that relationship and have turned my life round totally.

Reason for my early removal of disqualification: The company I work for (which I've worked for all my life) recently has required me to be able to drive as part of my job role. Basically up until today I have got away with avoiding having to drive but now they are requesting written conformation off all employees that they are able to drive. I fear that because I cant drive I will lose my job.

Can I have your thoughts please!!

 

[price1367]

You have to understand that you MAY be allowed to reapply for your licence in June, but the court may not allow you to apply straight away, as in ey can allow you to get it back early but not immediately. I have seen clients where they were allowed a reduction in their ban of 3 years at the 2 year stage, but only granted a 6 or 9 month reduction. Also, even if you are allowed to reapply straight away, this does not get you out of he need to go through the DVLA medical process which can take a month if you are lucky, or up to 3 months DVLA decide to consult your GP.
some courts allow you apply prior to the date when the 2 year period is up, to have a hearing on the 2 year anniversary, but there have been 2 reports on here recently where courts said that a person could not submit their application until the 2 year anniversary has arrived, making a hearing at the end of June.
effectively, if you get the full discount you can apply for ( and the court will consider that you have already benefitted from 2 discounts totalling 16 months for completing 2 courses on your 2 bans), then you would not be able to tell your employer that you can drive before the end of July - possibly up to 2 months after that.
i am saying the above so that you have a realistic understanding of what you face. "Entitled to apply for" does not mean "entitled to get" your licence back. I would suggest that you consult a solicitor to help you with this application. You do not get many 'merit points' for telling the court that the ban is making life hard for you - that was the point of you being banned! You do get points for telling the court how others are suffering or how other people or your company would benefit from you getting your licence back, (perhaps in a letter from them) what you have done to change your life and how you can reassure the court that you will not do it again. (Having already done it again)
If your contract with your company has not required you to drive previously, then they should allow a reasonable time for you to comply if they are now introducing that policy. (and including it in your contract.... if it isn't in there then they can't really hold you to account for not being able to drive) after all, if this is a new policy, some staff may not have learnt to drive and would need time for lessons to be able to pass their test.
hopefully this gives you an idea of the timescales that you will need to work to - and this may help you in your discussions with your company about when it is reasonable to expect employees to be able to comply with the policy, if and when it has properly been introduced.

 

[price1367]

Just to clarify my first part above (I shouldn't post in the middle of the night) you are ENTITLED to make an application for your licence back at the 2 year stage, the law states this as a right, but it is the GRANTING of the application that you make to the magistrates, or when it would actually be heard that is not certain.
You and / or your solicitor make the application, but you would be expected to give evidence yourself to the magistrates so that you can be questioned about your need for your licence back. The Crown Prosecution Service can ask questions and give any reasons they feel are relevant about if the application should be granted, also the Police are invited to put forward their view.

 

[Wickwick]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Judging by your responses I fear I may have explained myself poorly.

I am under no illusion that I will automatically get my licence back early, in fact, I don't have much confidence at all. Hence that is why I was asking everyone's opinion on this forum.

I'm simply stating the details of my case and asking what you consider my chances of success might be, and what steps you suggest I take. Also anyone in a similar situation and their experiences past and present will be invaluable to me. On the the back of that I will be gauging what my next steps will be.

Also I am fully aware that I will need to complete the HRO medical at some point before my licence is reinstated , regardless of early removal of disqualification.

I hope this clarifies my position and my expectations.

Just to add on your last comment, I think my contract has required me to drive as part of my job, its just that over the past two years I've managed to avoid having to. The thing that has changed is our safety department are now requesting written conformation that we are eligible to drive, status of licence, points etc. as part of an initiative to ensure all employees driving on company business are suitable and meet the requirements of the company insurance. I fear that if I cant give them that assurance then it could possibly place me in an unemployable position.

 

[price1367]

Sorry, you have explained yourself, whitwick, I only read your first post on this thread.... but your position is also spread out over other posts, that I have now read through.
i see that you have had good advice from Mclanelli and the resident solicitor, and agree with the former that getting a solicitor for this application is something you should do if you can afford it. - you will not get legal aid at all for a job like this.
Your first post does clarify that you actually got a 4 year ban, reduced to 3 on completing a DDRS course. As you have said, there were aggravating circumstances with you getting caught again within 4 years of getting your licence back, and your high reading, resulting in this 4 year ban rather than the usual 3 year minimum the court give for a second offence of drink driving in 10 years.
So you are applying for your licence back at the minimum period of half your original 4 year ban. I know you are now serving a 3 year ban because of the course, but that may well be the way the court look at it, making the application task harder than asking for your licence back at 2 years into an original 3 year ban. Conversely you can use the fact that you have attended the DDRS course, been discharged from supervision early and been on the 'DIDS' course as grounds to show how you have addressed your attitude towards alcohol and driving.
i think you will need to be clear about what has brought about your application to have your licence back at this stage. In an earlier post you said:
"In my case I am applying for a internal job position to better myself that requires me to drive."

Whereas above you say:

"just to add on your last comment, I think my contract has required me to drive as part of my job, its just that over the past two years I've managed to avoid having to. The thing that has changed is our safety department are now requesting written conformation that we are eligible to drive, status of licence, points etc. as part of an initiative to ensure all employees driving on company business are suitable and meet the requirements of the company insurance. I fear that if I cant give them that assurance then it could possibly place me in an unemployable position."


You have to be clear about the grounds for the application. It was indicated to you that the first reason was perhaps a bit flimsy. If the second reason is valid, you should get written confirmation of this, and maybe even get someone from the company to attend the hearing to give evidence in person. If you haven't mentioned your conviction to your company before , with this new policy of checking on driving status they are going to find out that you have 2 convictions for drink driving anyway, whilst working for them. (Does your contract require you to notify them of any points / disqualifications that you get at the time?)
if you are in danger of losing your job, this is material to your application and if the court had been aware at the time of sentencing this could have influenced the length of the ban (I.e. They may have gone for nearer 3 years instead of 4)
all these things are best pulled together by a solicitor. Often what the applicant thinks as good reasons to put forward to get their licence back might actually be seen as reasons to not grant the application by the magistrates. You need that confirmation from work, done in the best possible way, but without the magistrates taking the view that you have misled your employer and are now just trying to get yourself out of this hole.

 

[Wickwick]

I really appreciate the time and effort you personally have taken to reply to me and i am gratefully indebted for that.

I see by your profile that you are a TTC course provider / organiser and I must say how informative and well put together those courses are. I did mine in Preston, Lancs 18 months ago and I found the course leader extremely interesting and informative. In fact it was he who advised me that I would be in a position to "try" and get my licence back at the 2 year mark which is one of the reasons im hoping to pursue it.

The problem being, how do I convince a magistrate / magistrates that I should get my licence back? I'll be brutally honest and if I got an individual such as myself up before me pleading for his licence back I'd deny him outright. Based on the sole reason that would say to me "Do I really want to let a re-offender off early, he clearly didn't learn his lesson first time round and what would happen if he offended again and this time killed or injured someone or himself, would I as a magistrate want to have that held against my softer judgement"

My problem is, I've messed up twice, and it took two offences, but I've have learned my lesson now and would never ever mix drink with driving again, not on any level. I spent months convinced I was going to Jail even though I was advised i wouldn't but I simply wouldn't accept it. I have horrible repeating thoughts / dreams about me actually killing somebody and it scares the hell out of me. If I'd of done that I would have surely committed suicide, I wouldn't have been able to live with myself. In a way I look at getting caught as being 'lucky'. Too many people on here talk about how unlucky they are and unfortunate they have been but you have to look at it like this, at least you arent sat in jail or at home knowing for the rest of your life that you've selfishly took someone else's life from them or injured someone or yourself for life. I think about all the real unfortunate people, the victims.

 

[price1367]

Wickwick, thank you for your comments about our course. We do our best to engage with clients and make it not just factual but also interesting and a worthwhile experience.
Good job you are not a magistrate, with your harsh attitude...... But actually with a disqualification longer than 12 months you are not eligible to be a magistrate anyway.
You are worried about what the magistrates will think of your application, well I will remind you what you were shown on day 3 of the course when you look at the court system, and the purpose of Magistrates. There are 4:
to serve justice on behalf of the community
to punish offenders
to protect the public
(whenever possible) to rehabilitate the offender.

in your case, you have had the first 3 and a bit of 4 (the drink drive course) but you need to get across that you are rehabilitated, your circumstances have changed (relationship ended that was causing problems for you) what benefits will come from you getting your licence back for you, but especially others. ( assistance with disabled relatives, work being able to take on more staff if you can drive because they can take on a new project with you at the helm - and driving. You get my drift?
Lastly, because you rightly say that they will worry about a repeat of drink driving, tell them what you rent on the course: " there is nothing wrong with drinking, there is nothing wrong with driving, it is the gap that you must put in between that IS important. ( the courts do rate our courses as an excellent education for convicted drink drivers, and like to hear how people have benefitted from the course ( in your case two courses......)

 

[Wickwick]

Well just to let everyone know was in court today and was successful. So so thankful, never again!!!!

Applied to the court by letter stating my reasons at the two year mark (not one day before!!), took 28 days till i got a hearing.

Represented myself, Clerk of the court read my letter out (the letter i sent in requesting removal, very detailed aprox 1.5 sheets of A4)

They asked me if i had anything to add, I showed remorse and backed up the main points of my letter (brief 1 minute talk)

They adjourned for 10 mins

They then came back and I had to take the oath. They asked me if I'd been in trouble since the offence (no). They also asked me what I'd done to address my drinking.

Then that was it.

Now I've sent my D1 off with a court letter attached showing the removal and am waiting for my reply to book a medical. Disqualification removal wasn't granted till next week so i hope the DVLA don't mind me sending it in early on the basis i need to sort the medical out (after all you do all this prior to a normal HRO ban expires!!)

Thanks again to Price, you were a great help and support, and to all the others that responded

If anyone is in a similar situation please feel free to ask. Im so glad this horrendous chapter to my life is nearly over. Never again - Don't drink and Drive!!!!