Trying to make a difference - your stories needed!

Convicted Driver Insurance

WalsallYPHA

New Member
Hi,

I work as a health adviser for the NHS in Walsall, West Midlands and I'm about to work on a pre-Xmas drink driving campaign (yes, I love to leave things til the last minute...)

Anyway, I'm looking for real-life (anonymised) stories of your drink-driving experiences that I can use to illustrate the point that you can't really be sure what a 'safe' level of drinking is.

I'm hoping that people will find real experiences more interesting, surprising, compelling, useful, and ultimately persuasive than the usual bland 'don't drink and drive' messages?

I'm particularly interested in cases of people who have been caught 'the morning after', but any information is useful, especially if you had drunk a surprisingly small amount.

What I'd like to know from you is:
a) What time did you start drinking?
b) What did you drink?
c) What time did you stop drinking?
d) What time were you breathalysed? (and why - random campaign, traffic accident, reported?)
e) What was the reading?
f) Did it occur to you that you might be over the limit, but didn't think it likely that you'd be caught, or did you not even consider that you'd be over the limit?
g) What were the consequences for you? (e.g. level of fine, length of ban, any impact on work/home/travel etc)
h) Anything that surprised you about this experience?
i) Do you have any advice/reflections on your experience?

If you'd like to give me more background info to the circumstances of your scenario which helps to make it more real, but still anonymous, that would be great e.g. what you were doing while drinking, why you chose to drive etc. but I can work around it if you don't want to provide that info.

I'll be giving you a fake identity anyway (name & photo), but your real age, gender, and the job that you do would also be helpful in making your 'character' come to life but not essential - it's the facts that are the most important.

Thanks in advance for anyone choosing to help me (and ultimately the people I speak to on this topic for the next few years), I really do appreciate it, and hope your stories might help someone to not suffer the consequences you've had to.
 
Hi
I have just read your post and can't help but feel that coming on a forum such as this and asking people to aid you in a campaign after the event is a little in sensitive. Most of our situations are on going and we are here to support one another with the various issues we face.
Only my opinion but the fact that you have left a pre Christmas campaign until now only tells me you may not think it important.
You asked a question the safe amount of alcohol, I can easily answer that. Nothing. Especially if you intend to drive.
Finally this section of the forum is for those that have been arrested or convicted, we are here to offer one another support. It worries me a great deal that someone working for the NHS feels the need to ask people who have been convicted to aid their campaigns.
Best advice get on a TTC course.
 
ally said:
Hi
I have just read your post and can't help but feel that coming on a forum such as this and asking people to aid you in a campaign after the event is a little in sensitive. Most of our situations are on going and we are here to support one another with the various issues we face.
Only my opinion but the fact that you have left a pre Christmas campaign until now only tells me you may not think it important.
You asked a question the safe amount of alcohol, I can easily answer that. Nothing. Especially if you intend to drive.
Finally this section of the forum is for those that have been arrested or convicted, we are here to offer one another support. It worries me a great deal that someone working for the NHS feels the need to ask people who have been convicted to aid their campaigns.
Best advice get on a TTC course.
Click to expand...

I think the intentions of the OP were good and far from being a worry that the NHS are asking convicted drink drivers to help in a campaign it should be welcomed.
The NHS is there to educate and prevent, not just to pick up the pieces afterwards

The forum is there for 'people who have been affected by drinking and driving (in any way, shape or form)' as per the welcome page. Anything that helps to reduced the scourge of drink driving has got to be a good thing and I would assume that most drink drivers would agree despite the 'difficult' circumstances they may find themselves in.

If we are all trying to reduce the level of drink driving the I don't think anything should be regarded as insensitive. The impact on those who suffer as a result of the actions of drink drivers is immense. In my own case a friend was knocked off his bicycle on his way to work at 7 in the morning by a drink driver who left the scene leaving him unconscious in a ditch. She tried to cover herself by drinking whisky when she got home in an attempt to hide the fact she was in fact 2 1/2 times over the limit at the time of the accident as was proved by back calculation. My friend was in hospital for several weeks and then had several months of physiotherapy before he could start to look for work again. He was able to get a job some 14 months after the incident.

I make no apologies for not sharing in the self pity posts after what I have witnessed from the 'other side' and ANYTHING that raises the awareness of the shocking practise of drink
driving should be welcomed so that all of us can try to reduce and ideally eliminate it.
 
What WalsallYPHA seems to be trying to do is help people understand the consequences of drink driving and (hopefully) avoid death or serious injury.
Unlike Alf63 I have been fortunate in that no family members or friends have been killed or injured by a drink driver.

In the school I work in we invited 2 victims of drink drivers to give a talk on their experiences to a group of 6th form students (the drivers of tomorrow).

As the talk was to contain presentations and images of a graphic nature we had to seek permission from parents and guardians. We did not receive one refusal.

The stories were heart rending and many students and indeed staff were deeply moved by the stories we heard.

I do not know if the ban reduction courses include any material showing the consequences of drink driving. Perhaps someone who has been on one could enlighten me?

There is much support on this site for convicted drink drivers and that is a good thing as I am sure that in their way they are going through a situation that will change their
lives for many years with the consequences of a criminal conviction and sky high future insurance premiums when they are allowed back on the road.

I am quite sure that no-one drives their car while drunk with the deliberate intention of injuring anyone and it is mainly down to ignorance.

Please, spare a thought for the victims and may be try to be a little more understanding towards people who are trying to make a difference and eliminate that ignorance.
 
One of the modules we do on the last day covers victim awareness. We do not show dead bodies or nasty injuries as research has shown that the more horrific the picture is, the quicker we want to forget it.
instead we show a video showing a reconstruction of a fatal accident and the events before and after it told by the mother of the young female victim. It is based on a true story and I have seen people moved to tears from it. We stress that we are not blaming the drink drivers on the course, what we want them to do is watch the video and be relieved that it wasn't them. We ask how they would feel if they had been responsible for such an event.
I trust that Ally will give some feedback on that when she attends day 3 shortly.
 
price1367 said:
One of the modules we do on the last day covers victim awareness. We do not show dead bodies or nasty injuries as research has shown that the more horrific the picture is, the quicker we want to forget it.
instead we show a video showing a reconstruction of a fatal accident and the events before and after it told by the mother of the young female victim. It is based on a true story and I have seen people moved to tears from it. We stress that we are not blaming the drink drivers on the course, what we want them to do is watch the video and be relieved that it wasn't them. We ask how they would feel if they had been responsible for such an event.
I trust that Ally will give some feedback on that when she attends day 3 shortly.
Click to expand...

Thanks Price,

I can understand that really graphic images could have a negative longer term effect. Shock and awe tactics are not always the most beneficial.
We asked the 2 people to tell a story from before their incident to the present day. They did show pictures of them in hospital and afterwards with one in a wheelchair
but it was the story they told of the effect on them and their families which seemed to strike a chord with the audience and many of them did become quite emotional.

I do agree with the point that Ally has made elsewhere on the site that more education would be a good thing. Even if a video was created similar to the one you use
on your courses, the viewing of which is compulsory within the learning to drive process could help prevent tragedies.

I also understand that tests for certain drugs will also be introduced soon (they may have been already) as well as for alcohol.

It will be interesting to see over time how the stat's compare for drink and drug driving.
 
I joined this forum because I felt the need to. I really wanted to speak to other people who had or were going through the same as me. The title of this part of the site is 'have you been caught or convicted' that's why I am here. For Alf to suggest my posts along with others are pitiful is harsh. If you don't like it don't read them and maybe go to a different part of the site where your needs will be met.
As adults we have all witnessed tragedy and death were a person or a criminal act was responsible but it's of no help at all to you or anyone joining a forum relating to your personal experience and repeating your own in direct experience I'm sorry I fail to see what you are trying to achieve or what good you think you are doing?
I do not condone drink driving in whatever form but everyone's circumstances are different and it's no ones place to be judge and jury. All I ask is that you let us discuss our issues openly between ourselves and let the professional people amongst offer sound clear advice to those that need it.
It is true when I say all I have learnt is 10 weeks too late for me. On the course we discussed various scenarios where we had to decide whether we thought it was or could be a DD offence. I jotted down a couple of the examples we were given and came home and asked my friends and family not one person got it right. For example if you were sat in the drivers seat of a car that didn't have an engine? Could you get done for DD? I admit I said definately not and the answer was yes, as the car could still move and you could stir it?! There were so many from a horse and cart to you nipping in a newsagents in the middle of a short journey and a policeman being in the shop, you weren't actually driving but it is a blip in your journey and you could get done.
With each day that passes I am learning more I am more aware of my surroundings and what others are doing. I took my son for lunch today and there were four adults sat next to us, 48 units of alcohol between them accompanying their meal and yes straight to the car and they drove off, I could have flung myself on the bonnet!!
My curfew ends next Wednesday and the following Saturday the final day of my course and after that I will feel I have the right to honestly educate people because I have learnt the lesson the damn hard way. I'm hoping to catch people before they join this forum, I've even planned a lesson based on my first hand experience because I have been there but on a positive not I will come out the other side, educated and a better person and I give thanks to the select few that have pushed me through difficult times when I hadn't the strength to do it myself. X
 
Thanks for your responses and sorry for this epic length reply, but I really feel since I and my presence here is under attack that I should represent myself.

Ally, I'm sorry if you feel that I have been insensitive. I do appreciate that you must feel acutely sensitive of your situation, but that doesn't automatically mean I am being insensitive in asking about it. Who better for me to speak to than the people on this forum? If you have commented elsewhere "Educate drivers prior to their test. That will make a difference" and are then flaming me for daring to provide such a thing with reference to real-world examples then I am baffled and exasperated!?

You have already said that the information you have learnt since your offence has really changed your thinking and "I will feel I have the right to honestly educate people because I have learnt the lesson the damn hard way" - so what is so crazy about me asking you to tell me more, so I and my team, who are in a position to do so, can cascade that info to hundreds of people who may be at the point you were 10 weeks ago?

You suggest that I go to a TTC course, but that would be much more inefficient for the NHS than posting a question on here. I would only reach a few people at a time that way, plus there would be travel time etc, the course tutor presumably has content to cover, so would they be able to accommodate me and my questions? I could ask people to stay after to talk, but is that likely? This is far and away the best place for me to ask the questions I did (albeit that no-one responded in the time frame required for that particular campaign run), but this forum was ultimately extremely helpful and so I thank the community for that.

I didn't actually ask what a 'safe' amount of alcohol is to drive. I know the answer to that. I totally agree that the message needs to be 'not a drop'. But that message has been running for quite some time. If that message worked in isolation, this forum would not need to exist!

I wanted real-life examples of amounts people had drunk thinking they were 'safe' to drive (i.e. under the limit), when they turned out not to be.

I chose the examples of someone who had had 'two pints' as this seemed to be a widely held misconception that you would be under the limit after two pints.

I picked two examples of 'morning after' drink driving offences, one of wine and the other of beer, (your example would have been one I would definitely been interested in, had I seen it in time, because I think would surprise the average person and make them think).

I also picked an example from someone who had been on medication which unbeknown to them must have affected their ability to process alcohol as they had been over the limit when no-one would have expected them to be.

My point for all of the examples being that which I made in my second sentence: "you can't really be sure what a 'safe' level of drinking is". (Then going on to do the exercises/games/spiel we usually do explaining about calculating units etc., general safer drinking guidance for health)

I also included some stories about the unforeseen reasons why people had come to be breathalysed - because lots of people seem to think 'well, I may be a bit close to/over the limit, but I'm still a safe driver because I can handle my drink, I'm unlikely to get stopped' - not thinking that they could be in an accident that wasn't their fault but be breathalysed because of it, pure chance/random campaign, stood next to a police officer at a newsagent etc.

Lastly I wanted stories about the unforeseen consequences people may not even realise could result from a drink-driving conviction. Many people don't even know that you automatically lose your licence, let alone that it can affect travel, career prospects etc. Again, I was looking for real world examples so that the people my team speak to can think 'oh, god, that's like me because..., that would really cause me problems if that happened, because...' Let alone thinking about 'what if you caused this?' because in reality people think they never will.

I completely agree with Price1367 - graphic images have little value. Making people THINK is invaluable.

You say "the fact that you have left a pre Christmas campaign until now only tells me you may not think it important", actually no. It was not my idea to run a pre-xmas drink driving campaign with two weeks' notice. I was asked by the police to collaborate on their campaign while I was already busy with Alcohol Awareness Week Events (November). Collaborative working is really important for all sorts of reasons. Of course I could have refused, but why would I? I needed to pull something together quickly, I did so, and from the feedback we got at the events we did, I really do think that what we did was valuable and made people think.

Lastly, you say "I fail to see what you are trying to achieve or what good you think you are doing?", well, I've been delivering NHS health messages for a number of years, I know what I think I've been doing, and I hope in the explanation above explains what I was trying to achieve in this instance. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, and despite statistical evidence to show that in our area we do seem to be having a positive impact on alcohol-related A&E attendances etc., drug & alcohol education in our area will no longer be funded as of July. So luckily, since you disapprove of what I'm doing, your wish is granted.
 
Ally, with all due respect I didn't say the posts were pitiful I said that I don't share in the self pity. What you and other people in your situation are going through is most traumatic I have no doubt.

All I am trying to do is share my experience (and it was a personal one). I have known this person for almost 50 years and he was left for dead in a most heartless and cruel way.
and this had a huge impact on not only himself but everyone around him.

The welcome page states that it does not just concentrate on the victims of drunk drivers, that does not mean that they don't have a voice here and should be shouted down just because they have a point of view that sits uncomfortably with some people.

The poster from Walsall YPHA was trying to do precisely what you say is not done. i.e. advising people of the risks of drink driving before the event.

Anyone entering 'Drink Driving' or similar within a search engine will find this site close to the top of the list and whatever their reason for making that search anything that can
get the message out there of the dangers of drink driving (you getting caught and the issues it caused you, me with the issues it caused my friend or Walsall YPHA trying to make a difference and prevent it) can only be a good thing.

Incidentally, if I saw someone drinking the equivalent to a bottle of high strength wine (12 units) and then drive off in a car I would report the fact to the police immediately because I have a moral obligation to help prevent a potential serious injury or death.
 
WalsallYPHA said:
Thanks for your responses and sorry for this epic length reply, but I really feel since I and my presence here is under attack that I should represent myself.

Ally, I'm sorry if you feel that I have been insensitive. I do appreciate that you must feel acutely sensitive of your situation, but that doesn't automatically mean I am being insensitive in asking about it. Who better for me to speak to than the people on this forum? If you have commented elsewhere "Educate drivers prior to their test. That will make a difference" and are then flaming me for daring to provide such a thing with reference to real-world examples then I am baffled and exasperated!?

You have already said that the information you have learnt since your offence has really changed your thinking and "I will feel I have the right to honestly educate people because I have learnt the lesson the damn hard way" - so what is so crazy about me asking you to tell me more, so I and my team, who are in a position to do so, can cascade that info to hundreds of people who may be at the point you were 10 weeks ago?

You suggest that I go to a TTC course, but that would be much more inefficient for the NHS than posting a question on here. I would only reach a few people at a time that way, plus there would be travel time etc, the course tutor presumably has content to cover, so would they be able to accommodate me and my questions? I could ask people to stay after to talk, but is that likely? This is far and away the best place for me to ask the questions I did (albeit that no-one responded in the time frame required for that particular campaign run), but this forum was ultimately extremely helpful and so I thank the community for that.

I didn't actually ask what a 'safe' amount of alcohol is to drive. I know the answer to that. I totally agree that the message needs to be 'not a drop'. But that message has been running for quite some time. If that message worked in isolation, this forum would not need to exist!

I wanted real-life examples of amounts people had drunk thinking they were 'safe' to drive (i.e. under the limit), when they turned out not to be.

I chose the examples of someone who had had 'two pints' as this seemed to be a widely held misconception that you would be under the limit after two pints.

I picked two examples of 'morning after' drink driving offences, one of wine and the other of beer, (your example would have been one I would definitely been interested in, had I seen it in time, because I think would surprise the average person and make them think).

I also picked an example from someone who had been on medication which unbeknown to them must have affected their ability to process alcohol as they had been over the limit when no-one would have expected them to be.

My point for all of the examples being that which I made in my second sentence: "you can't really be sure what a 'safe' level of drinking is". (Then going on to do the exercises/games/spiel we usually do explaining about calculating units etc., general safer drinking guidance for health)

I also included some stories about the unforeseen reasons why people had come to be breathalysed - because lots of people seem to think 'well, I may be a bit close to/over the limit, but I'm still a safe driver because I can handle my drink, I'm unlikely to get stopped' - not thinking that they could be in an accident that wasn't their fault but be breathalysed because of it, pure chance/random campaign, stood next to a police officer at a newsagent etc.

Lastly I wanted stories about the unforeseen consequences people may not even realise could result from a drink-driving conviction. Many people don't even know that you automatically lose your licence, let alone that it can affect travel, career prospects etc. Again, I was looking for real world examples so that the people my team speak to can think 'oh, god, that's like me because..., that would really cause me problems if that happened, because...' Let alone thinking about 'what if you caused this?' because in reality people think they never will.

I completely agree with Price1367 - graphic images have little value. Making people THINK is invaluable.

You say "the fact that you have left a pre Christmas campaign until now only tells me you may not think it important", actually no. It was not my idea to run a pre-xmas drink driving campaign with two weeks' notice. I was asked by the police to collaborate on their campaign while I was already busy with Alcohol Awareness Week Events (November). Collaborative working is really important for all sorts of reasons. Of course I could have refused, but why would I? I needed to pull something together quickly, I did so, and from the feedback we got at the events we did, I really do think that what we did was valuable and made people think.

Lastly, you say "I fail to see what you are trying to achieve or what good you think you are doing?", well, I've been delivering NHS health messages for a number of years, I know what I think I've been doing, and I hope in the explanation above explains what I was trying to achieve in this instance. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, and despite statistical evidence to show that in our area we do seem to be having a positive impact on alcohol-related A&E attendances etc., drug & alcohol education in our area will no longer be funded as of July. So luckily, since you disapprove of what I'm doing, your wish is granted.
Click to expand...

I am sorry if I have offended you but its how I feel. I feel vulnerable at the moment.
 
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