Please help and advise, I cant sleep and scared I could lose my son.

Convicted Driver Insurance

shazar

Member
So, I very severely messed up looking back at what happened in hindsight. I went for some tea with my friend, her daughter and my son. She had a bottle of beer and I had a 175ml glass of wine of which she was witness to. She then took my son and her daughter off in her car to their drama lesson due to finish at 7 and she was going to be collecting them both and bringing my boy back to my house. I drove home, called at petrol station of diesel and a spot of shopping and was home by 5.45pm. I dumped my shopping went into the kitchen and drank a glass of wine ( fairly large ) left over form the night before and then the door bell rang. I went to answer it and a police man was there. I went into total panic mode. ( He said that he had seen me drive and that there was nothing wrong with my driving ) however, went on to say that he had been 'tipped' off by someone that I may be drinking and driving regularly and admitted later that he'd been trying to catch me for several days. As you can imagine, I just didn't know what to say, he asked me if Id had a drink and I told him about the glass of wine at approx. 4.30 -5pm but said I hadn't drunk anything else. I was embarrassed that I'd walked in the house and drank one from the night before. He took me out to his car and I blew 48. He then took me to the station and all I was focused on was getting home for my friend bringing my son back. I now realise that if I'd admitted that I'd had a drink as soon as I walked in with no further intention or need of driving any more that day, then things would be easier for me but I was embarrassed. I wanted to ring my friend to let her know that I may be late and he said I could do that at the station. At the station ( half an hour later ) I still blew the same 48 and I was surprised as I though it would have come down in that time. They wouldn't let me make a phone call or go to the toilet, in fact when I asked several lady officers they said they didn't know where the loo was!!?? I was offered the choice of a blood or urine test so as said as I still really needed the loo could I have a urine test? He said that he got to decide, not me and I was having a blood test so I said ok and asked if I couldg0 to the toilet again, still I wasn't allowed. I have never been arrested before and didn't understand the procedure or the serious implications of the situation I was in. My bloods were taken at about 7.10pm and it was only after that I was sent down to a different room and allowed to ring my friend to ask her to keep my son with her for a little longer. I didn't even see what they did with my blood after it was taken as I had been ushered down to a different room for finger prints etc. Shortly after the Constable came in and held out two containers of blood and offered me one. He then disappeared again and came back to give me my sample. At the front desk he didn't appear to know what he was supposed to be doing with his sample and I asked him quite politely if he was new to the job. At 7.55 pm they breathalysed me again and I was down to 28; they bailed me and he drove me home and he said I was fine to drive to go and pick up my son. I spoke to my solicitor the next day and was told that if I'd admitted to drinking the wine quickly when I came in they wouldn't have been able to prove that I had been over the limit while driving. I feel so stupid but was just panicing about getting it all over as soon as possible and kept asking them to be quick at the police station so I could be back for him. I am a single Mother with two jobs and my son's school is 3 and a half miles away and I am semi rural with only very sporadic buses. This could mean me losing my employment and then my house because I can't then pay the mortgage. Please can someone advise me as I cannot sleep. I know one thing, the occasional glass of wine at lunchtime or tea time will NEVER be an option again. I never drive over the limit as I have a clear understanding of legal limits. PPlease take the time to reply to this for me. I'm not even 100% sure that the Police carried out the correct procedure however I was totally honest about everything apart from the glass of wine as soon as I got home.
 
I would think this is a case where the seriousness of the offense could work in your favour.

Because this is CRIMINAL law (where you have to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt) not civil law (where a balance of probabilities aka 'Judge Judy type judgements' operates), everything has to be done by the book.

Did you state on the doorstep to the PC that you had not had a drink indoors? Or did he take a statement from you to that effect at the station? Did he formally arrest you and advise you of your rights 'i.e. right to remain silent' before he started interrogating you on the doorstep??

However, as far blood or urine test I believe you don't get a choice unless you have a medical reason not to have a blood test. However I have to say it sounds highly dodgy and convenient that you forgot/embrassed to tell him that you had a quick glass in the few moments when you got home and you answering the door. Regardless, it sounds like he arrested you on private property, afaik drink driving laws apply to a road or other public place - he should have stopped and arrested you on the road if thats the case.
 
Letsbeavenue,
i am afraid that your knowledge of the law is sketchy, to say the least.....
the police officer only has to have evidence that you are, or have been, the driver of a motor vehicle on a road or public place, to have the power to carry out a breath test. The fact that he formed the suspicion of alcohol after the driving stopped, and required the breath test on private property is not in any way improper, perfectly legal to do this.
a person does not have to be cautioned or arrested before a breath test is carried out, just told of the reason for the test.
from reading Shazar's post, including what she says her solicitor said, I don't think she told the police at all about the glass of wine at home.

Shazar,
it is correct that you have not mentioned to the police at all about the glass of wine at home? If not, I agree with Letsbeavenue that it is hard to believe that you would not mention such a thing. It must have only been a couple of minutes between you getting home and the Police officer knocking on the door if he actually saw you driving.... As I doubt that he would have gone off to do another job before returning to knock your door.
your solicitor is wrong to say that the police would not be able to prove you were over the limit if you had told them you had drunk the wine. In these cases, your breath result is presumed to be what was in your body when you drove, unless you satisfy the court that you had a drink since you drove AND that it made the difference to you being over the limit or not, so in effect, the police have the proof they need, YOU have to prove your innocence.....
I would have expected a breath test done at your house within 5 minutes of you drinking a large glass of wine to be raised significantly because of mouth alcohol being present. Subsequently your alcohol in your body would have increased as the units of alchohol absorbed into your system. In your case, your reading at the house and the police station were the same, and then fell quite quickly if you are right about a reading of 28 at 7.55pm. That is consistent with alcohol being consumed earlier, rather than after you got home.
this may be academic, if your blood result comes back under the limit, as this will then be no further action.
when are you bailed to return to the station? You could get your sample analysed yourself at a lab if you want a quick answer, but you have to pay about £100 for this.
 
To be honest it all happened so quickly, I'm unsure about exactly what was said, I certainly didn't get the ' you have the right to remain silent ' speech, he made it all seem that everything would be ok. I often come in at the end of the day and grab a quick drink as do lots of people I know but only if I know I'm not going to be driving again and don't spend every night sitting at home getting sloshed. I tend to drink white wine with ice in it and have a vague memory of drinking it but can't be sure which is why I didn't mention it because I WAS embarrassed, he also said that he was following me and flashed me, he absolutely wasn't though, because I always use my mirrors as I have to slow and turn left into my estate. He said he followed me directly in, which he also didn't as I was unloading shopping and I am right at the entrance to the street. I would not have been able to miss him. My belief is was was waiting outside my house on the corner. If the alchohol levels were dropping then they should have dropped during the half an hour it took to be driven to the police station surely?

Thank you both for taking the time to reply though
 
Oh and I'm bailed to go back on the 19th of December and sent my sample of the blood for independent analysis, they received it on Friday so I should hear from them this week, I spoke at length to the DR who was going to be doing the results and he thought the readings seemed odd. Expects the bloods to be very borderline. If I am over then I will have to live with it but in my circumstances will lose my jobs as they both involve extensive driving and have no way of transporting my son to school so his Father will insist he goes and lives with him. My boy will not want that. I feel like I have really let him down badly and feel so stupid, which I'm sure everyone does. I am not on a bus route though and have no family to help, the closest live 60 miles away but are elderly. I am just hoping and praying that I can get some help from somewhere.
 
I agree, the blood result will be close, and the police result is usually a bit lower that the actual result that you get from your sample. They deduct 6 from the reading, then notify the police that it was "not less that XX". You have not been specific enough on the times for me to estimate your likely reading.
If your sample is 86 or less, you should be OK with the police one.
 
These are the timings:-

Doorbell rang 5.50 first breath test approx 6pm = 48

Police station at 6.28 and 6.29 were 49 and 48 respectively

Blood test 7.10pm

Final breathalyser 7.55pm was 28 and the officer drove me home and said I was totally fine to drive.
I would appreciate your opinion as I don't understand why the readings hadn't come down in the half an hour time lapse and then dropped so quickly after the blood test. I must've drank something left over from the night before when I came in knowing that I had no intention of driving later that evening as my friend was bringing my son back to me. When the Police officer arrived on my door step I certainly went into panic mode as I have had 23 years of clean driving history except for once I had a speeding fine years ago.

You're opinion would be much appreciated
 
was the 7.55pm one on the police station machine, or a small hand held one?
 
Hand held one and the same one used for the initial breath test. Sorry for late reply, my sons in a local theatre production and we have only just got back.
 
You have to separate out the hand held results from the police station (evidential) one. The hand held ones are using a machine that gives an INDICATION Of what your reading is, but they are not calibrated so often, and as a battery operated device, are more prone to error.
having said that, with a reading of 48 at 6pm, 28 is about what I would have expected at 7.50pm using the same hand held.
unfortunately for you, what the readings indicate is that your readings were falling, and were NOT the readings that would be expected if you had consumed a large glass of wine at 5.50pm.
The reading of 48 at 6.29pm is the accurate one that we need to consider and you provided a blood sample at 7.10pm. Depending on your size and when you last ate, for a female I would expect your reading to be 85-95, with 6 then deducted by the lab that the police use, so 79-89.... with the legal limit being 80. The odds look like you will be over.
 
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY, you must spend hours on this thing! If I did polish off a glass left over from the night before it wouldn't have been a large glass it would have been diluted with melted ice anyway but as I only had one drink ( pretty sure it was a 175ml ) measure and drank it alongside two diet cokes in the restaurant, I would have finished that by 5 ish. To have a reading like that that then stayed consistent from 5.50 to 6.30 pm, it just doesn't seem right. Which is why I think that I must've done otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. I used to work as a trainer for the Alcohol Advisory service so know the implications and risks very well, it's the Maths that i'm struggling with. You may ask why I'm struggling to remember but there is so much uncertainty and chaos in my personal and home life that I think it's a credit to me as a single Mum that i'm managing to work two jobs, both of which I need my car for and my son goes to school 3 1/2 miles away oh, and my house was sold in February but my buyers buyer has pulled out so me and my boy are all packed and at the moment I barely have time to think. No exaggeration. I am waiting the my results to come back from the laboratory but I am totally convinced I shouldn't have been over the limit when I had driven. I am very careful, I do like a glass of wine but will only ever have a small one when i'm going to be driving my son. If I lose my licence it will mean, that I lose both jobs, won't be able to pay my mortgage, won't be able to get my son to school ( no buses ) where I am and for me the consequences are life shattering. I have even been researching the medications I take to see if any of them interact with the metabolism of alcohol because I cannot for the life of me piece together what happened. One thing I do know is that I was asking the police to be as quick as possible - a because I was dying for a wee and they wouldn't let me have one, b - I needed to phone my friend to ask her to keep hold of my son rather than bring him to mine and they wouldn't let me call her and c. because I genuinely believed I couldn't have been over the legal limit. I have read many stories on here where people were breathalysed at a level akin to mine and much, much over but had their bloods taken hours later rather than 40 mins later. I made an error of judgement but didn't in hindsight do myself any favours. I just complied with everything they said although was confused throughout the whole ordeal. I certainly don't deserve to lose my son over this but that is what will happen as my ex husband will insist he comes and lives with him. My son will not want that. I have let him down and ruined my life after I have worked so hard to build it up. If anyone is reading this, believe me it hits you hard and will hit those who love you just as hard. If I had a partner, family, support and didn't live in such a rural area then I could find ways around making things work. I don't have any of that. Anyway, thanks for you're reply and for taking the time. I think their should be individual circumstances taken into account, I would take out a loan and pay a bigger fine or even ask for my potential ban to be delayed until my son goes to a different school in September but I cannot sort this out in any way in the time that I have. Desperate and desperately upset doesn't even cover it
 
I do spend quite a bit of time helping out on here, I do it from home, rather than at work, so I can respond at strange hours....
You clearly have a lot going on in your life. Fingers crossed for the result, let us know when you hear in a couple of days.
You are still caught up on your reading being the same at 5.50pm and 6.30pm, but you are not comparing the same thing. As I pointed out, the one was on a 'rough and ready' hand held device, the other was an evidential machine. You can often get a variance between them, I have tried blowing into both at (almost) the same time and saw quite different readings. that is why you are not prosecuted on a hand held device reading, it is not accurate enough to be counted as 'evidence'
The results of 5.50pm and 7.50pm, both on the hand held, do show a consistency of a reduction in your reading. What you are looking for is the likely reduction from the evidential reading at 6.30pm (which is not now evidence as you opted for the further sample) and to the blood sample which was taken at 7.10pm. That is where I came up with the likely reading of 79 - 89 for the police sample based on a normal reduction for an average type female. If you had drunk an amount of wine just before you were breath tested at home, I would have expected your hand held results to have had a much greater variance to what they showed, because there would have been mouth alcohol still present when you blew at home. Also, if you had drunk a glass of wine when you got home, I would expect your blood reading to come out higher than I have predicted.
A breath reading of 48 at 6.30pm is the equivalent of a blood reading of 108. Some of the 5.50pm wine would still be absorbing into your system, so the 7.10pm blood sample would read at least that, or more, according to the size of the glass of wine.
Consequently, although it seems illogical, a higher blood reading will HELP your case that you had a glass of wine when you got home, that just leaves you to satisfy the court that you did drink it after you stopped driving, AND that it made the difference to you being over the limit. We can explore that more if you do get a higher reading than the range that I predicted.
 
I spoke to the Dr chap this evening and they have run my bloods twice and are doing so again overnight tonight, it came in as 92 and 90. I don't get it, I must've topped up a little as soon as I got in. I do often just grab a juice or whatever is left on the side from the morning but it was all so rushed I cannot remember really.
I do know, I had a lot on my mind and a huge amount of phone calls to make while I had that bit of time when my son was at his lesson, I also know that there was never any intention of me drinking again afterwards. Despite the fact that I ended up having to because I was proclaimed 'fit to drive ' ay 7.55 therefore the officer dropped me off and I went to my car immediately to go and fetch him from my friends. It seems farcical when I see so many peopleon here that didn'y get their blood test until hours later and therefore pass. Despite a much higher alcohol breath and blood reading, I know I have made an error of judgement but the officer sais I didn't seem over the limit and assured me all would be fine at the police station and that it was just procedure. I cannot believe that mine and most importantly my son's life is going to be ruined because of potentially 10 minutes of being allowed to make a phone call or go to the toilet. I have made an appointment with my Dr for next week as I have researched the medication I take and I believe this may have had an impact.
Why would they need to run the bloods three times - apparently last night didn't work and there was some discrepancy in the print outs today. I have been led to believe that if it came out at 86 I would be ok but at 90 I will not be.
 
I don't understand why you want to help people like me but I appreciate that you do. If you would send me ur phone number I would very much appreciate a chat about this as it's soooo very borderline but the life of my son is at stake here and I also recall them asking me about the role I have and this would look so very bad on me. I will lose everything, I can get witness statements character references etc. I know that I got it wrong, but NOT intentionally and there is a whole lot more adding to the stress I am under that I haven't even highlighted on here. Like, I've just found out that unethical practises have left me and 300 others across the UK with potential debt to HMRC for many thousands of pounds which we are all currently actively fighting. I am on my own here and it feels like you are the only person that can help, please reply tonight if you can, thank you
 
Shazar,

Sorry but I do not do phone calls, as it would be my home number and I am often out and about so I don't want my family disturbed.
I will be happy to respond to a PM if you send me one.
The readings that you got are consistent with what I predicted, for NOT having a drink after you got home.
I note what you have said about this not being intentional, that if you had managed to delay things by a few minutes it might have been a better result and that others end up with a better deal..... BUT these are the vagaries of drink driving. IF you had drunk only a little more, you would not have had the option of the blood test at all and would have been charged with drink driving straight away. (that option is only available for readings up to and including 50 in breath)
I have already explained that you would have to satisfy the court that you did consume alcohol after driving, AND that it made the difference to your being over the limit. From your answers it appears that this is unlikely. You have varied between I DID drink a fairly large glass of wine, to saying I think I must have drunk some wine, but diluted with water.
The likely outcome is a 12 to 16 month ban (probably 12 months with character references and suitable apologies to the court together with the likely impact on your job) which would be reduced to 9 months if you attend a Drink Drive rehabilitation Course.
Your only possible lifeline would be to find a flaw in the police procedure, as there are set procedures they have to follow when requesting the blood sample. You would only get a copy of their form that they completed if you plead not guilty, but then you risk the costs going up. You can write to the police asking for a copy of your custody record and the video relating to your time in custody. You do not need a solicitor to do this, just write to the 'Officer in Charge' at the station you were detained at, giving your name, address and date of birth requesting that they supply you with copies.
It would need a solicitor to formally raise errors in procedure, but the basics are easy to look for,
 
I still, don't understand this but I do appreciate ur input. I was not drunk, but having never been arrested before was scared. I had so much else on my mind my priority was to get back for my son. I will PM u in the morning because this is making little sense to me ( I don't mean about what you have said, but I feel that \I am being judged and judged wrongly. I will fight this all the way, because I sincerely believe that I am not guilty.
 
I take the point that your readings were falling and not rising (as with a glass of wine) is inconstant with what you say.

However, if you are not guilty I would likely plea not guilty (if it was me).

When making an arrest the police have to give a police caution. If you are certain this has not been done I would contact the police and ask them about evidence of this.
 
LetsbyAvenue said:
I take the point that your readings were falling and not rising (as with a glass of wine) is inconstant with what you say.

However, if you are not guilty I would likely plea not guilty (if it was me).

When making an arrest the police have to give a police caution. If you are certain this has not been done I would contact the police and ask them about evidence of this.
Click to expand...

Pit depends if you have the money, as without expert evidence, and a good solicitor, you cannot even dream of going not guilty, the law is complex and you would fail on your own.
I am afraid that you are wrong again, letsbyAvenue, on the law. There have been cases where the caution was in dispute, but this did not make the evidential breath test, or in this case blood sample inadmissible. Here has even been case law where the whole arrest procedure was held to be incorredct, but the sample was still admissible.
Your first mention was that you had to be cautioned on the doorstep, before being breath tested. Now you say that the poster should contact the police and "ask them about evidence of this." If she is sure that the caution was not given. She has not said she was not cautioned at any stage, she said she could not remember it being given when she was questioned on the doorstep. THe evidence will be in the officers statement, which is available when you plead not guilty. The police are not obliged to, nor will they, give out partial evidence at this early stage.

I have advised the op to obtain her custody record and the custody video. That is all that the police are obliged to give by law at this stage.
on the video I would anticipate it showing her being asked "have you since the time of the alleged offence consumed any alcohol (and some other questions) if she says "no" and now she says "sorry, days later I remember I did," or "I think I must have because of the reading" .... oh and by the way I know I wasn't cautioned (even though the officers statement will doubtless say she was cautioned when arrested after she failed the breath test at home, which is the correct time to caution because the officer now has grounds to suspect that she has committed an offence of drink driving)

you our are entitled to have an opinion on what you would do, however I prefer to deal with reality. The Op will fail with a not guilty plea, unless there is some procedural error found in the paperwork that I have suggested that she obtain, it will cost in the region of £5,000 for her to go down the not guilty route. Having dealt with cases like this over many years, both for the prosecution and assisting with defence, I always give honest answers rather than raise false hopes.
 
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