they couldn't get me for anything else.

[limeyphil]

it's been an interesting couple of years.
i was a hgv driver, and i was arrested at dover for smuggling 4.5 million cigarettes. they tried to get me to admit to the smuggling, but i knew nothing about them. then there was the time at another port, they found some illegal immigrants. once again i knew nothing. then there was the KGB in Belarus. i was guilty because they said so. even though i had no idea that western beer is strictly contraband in europes last dictatorship. silly me. so the only conviction i've had was not even by the british authorities, but one that is so far away, that not many people know it exists.
anyway.
i was pulled, and searched at every port i came through. they were determined to get me for something. it started with the UKBA, then special branch, and the anti terrorist squad would have a go. 44 searches, out of 47 uk border entries.
anyway one day i got chatting to some romanians, and police in france. we had some wine before bording the ferry.
then 5 hours later when we disembarked special branch had a sweeney moment, and went all out and arrested me for drink driving. they reckon i was 3.5 times the limit.
but the thing is, i don't they should have nicked me. i've known loads of lorry drivers get hammered, drive off a boat, and park up. no one bothers them, as long as they don't drive off the port.
i will get my licence back in october 2013. can i drive straight away, or will i have to wait for dvla to issue my licence. i've still got my old one, as i use it abroad.

thanks.

 

[Forum Moderator]

it's been an interesting couple of years.
i was a hgv driver, and i was arrested at dover for smuggling 4.5 million cigarettes. they tried to get me to admit to the smuggling, but i knew nothing about them. then there was the time at another port, they found some illegal immigrants. once again i knew nothing. then there was the KGB in Belarus. i was guilty because they said so. even though i had no idea that western beer is strictly contraband in europes last dictatorship. silly me. so the only conviction i've had was not even by the british authorities, but one that is so far away, that not many people know it exists.
anyway.
i was pulled, and searched at every port i came through. they were determined to get me for something. it started with the UKBA, then special branch, and the anti terrorist squad would have a go. 44 searches, out of 47 uk border entries.
anyway one day i got chatting to some romanians, and police in france. we had some wine before bording the ferry.
then 5 hours later when we disembarked special branch had a sweeney moment, and went all out and arrested me for drink driving. they reckon i was 3.5 times the limit.
but the thing is, i don't they should have nicked me. i've known loads of lorry drivers get hammered, drive off a boat, and park up. no one bothers them, as long as they don't drive off the port.
i will get my licence back in october 2013. can i drive straight away, or will i have to wait for dvla to issue my licence. i've still got my old one, as i use it abroad.

thanks.

More information on re-applying for your driving licence can be found here. In short, usually you cannot just start driving once your ban has expired until you have applied for and received your driving licence.

However, in certain circumstances some drivers can legally drive once the DVLA have received a qualifying driving licence application under section 88 of The Road Traffic Act 1988. In order to clarify if section 88 applies to you, you should contact the DVLA once they have received your driving licence application in order for them to inform you when you can legally drive.

 

[limeyphil]

thanks for the reply. i'll do some checking nearer the time (a long time off yet).
i get pulled so much, that i have to get it right.

 

[price1367]

thanks for the reply. i'll do some checking nearer the time (a long time off yet).
i get pulled so much, that i have to get it right.

You say that you are using your old licence abroad. You can't do that! Your licence is not valid anywhere else as you are driving as a visitor to that country, with a UK entitlement.... which you do not have. That will also mean that you do not have valid insurance either, because it is dependent on you having a licence.

 

[limeyphil]

You say that you are using your old licence abroad. You can't do that! Your licence is not valid anywhere else as you are driving as a visitor to that country, with a UK entitlement.... which you do not have. That will also mean that you do not have valid insurance either, because it is dependent on you having a licence.

I think your mate must have told you that.
This has been covered so many times. The UK only has mutual recocnition of driving bans with Ireland, And that is very restrictive. Irish man caught in UK, then banned in Ireland. Irishman Caught in Ireland, He's not banned in UK.
It is also a Human rights act issue, This was sorted out at court. It's illegal to ban anyone in other countries due to the differences with the penalties. For example: First DD in UK 12 month ban, Germany is a fine equal to one months pay.
Please do some reading before posting. You have made yourself look like a bit of a numpty.

 

[price1367]

I think your mate must have told you that.
This has been covered so many times. The UK only has mutual recocnition of driving bans with Ireland, And that is very restrictive. Irish man caught in UK, then banned in Ireland. Irishman Caught in Ireland, He's not banned in UK.
It is also a Human rights act issue, This was sorted out at court. It's illegal to ban anyone in other countries due to the differences with the penalties. For example: First DD in UK 12 month ban, Germany is a fine equal to one months pay.
Please do some reading before posting. You have made yourself look like a bit of a numpty.

No, Limeyphil, My mate did not tell me that.

FYI, I have 40 years experience in the law, and have been involved with courses for drink drivers to help them get their licences restored early since their inception 19 years ago. I am the legal advisor for 45 trainers who deliver these courses nationally and have spoken at conferences throughout England, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland on drink driving and legal issues. I am consulted by solicitors when they have technical drink drive legal matters they would like advice on.

Now, having established that I am not a 'numpty' ...
I did not say that your disqualification here was a disqualification in other countries. You are right that bans are not recognised in other countries (any you are right about the Ireland bit) What I said was that you have to be the holder of a UK licence if you want to drive abroad, as you are driving as a visitor to that country and do not hold a licence there so you are reliant on cross border agreements to recognise each other's driving licences in most countries.. Your problem is that you are NOT the holder of a UK licence. The offence you will be committing is driving without a driving licence. The only way you are getting away with it is that you 'happen to' have a duplicate licence to produce. This should, of course, have been returned when you 'found' it again after declaring that you had lost it to get another one. You will be committing an offence each time you produce it to a Police Officer and deceiving them into thinking that you have a valid UK licence.

On the insurance aspect, are you using UK insurance to drive abroad, in which case have you told them you are disqualified in the UK and therefore do not hold a licence? If so, I very much doubt that they would cover you. If you apply for insurance abroad, the same question would come up about 'Do you hold a licence to drive, are you disqualified etc' and you would still have a problem legally having insurance.


You asked in your original quote about could you drive straight away when your ban is up, and you were correctly advised that you had to have the driving licence in your possession, and wait for the valid date it says for you to drive. But in your case, as you hold a goods vehicle licence, DVLA, whilst giving you back your ordinary licence, will refer you to your local Traffic Commissioner for consideration of IF you should get your HGV licence back. Experience shows that at your reading he / she will want you to appear before them to explain what you did, and what you have learned from the offence. They will then probably withold your HGV part for 1 month for each year you were banned over 12 months.
When arriving at their decision they will take into account such things as: Your conduct since your ban, (feel free to tell them that you have been driving regularly on the continent with no driving licence) If you committed the offence in a goods vehicle and your level of remorse (which would include your reflecting that, whilst you saw no problem with driving off a ferry whilst 3 1/2 times the legal limit limit at the time, because you were 'only' going to park up and sleep it off - which would have taken 15 hours - you have now considered the risk of injury or worse that you put the ferry staff, port staff and other drivers in and you have realised what a fool you were.

Now you can take this honest advice from a 'numpty', who has helped thousands of drivers to get their licences back early, or make sure that when you are caught again you ask for a rehabilitation course to reduce your ban...I have to say thay 95% of the people I deal with on these courses show genuine remorse for what they did, unlike yourself. I for one am hoping that you do not injure or kill someone first.

 

[limeyphil]

No, Limeyphil, My mate did not tell me that.

FYI, I have 40 years experience in the law, and have been involved with courses for drink drivers to help them get their licences restored early since their inception 19 years ago. I am the legal advisor for 45 trainers who deliver these courses nationally and have spoken at conferences throughout England, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland on drink driving and legal issues. I am consulted by solicitors when they have technical drink drive legal matters they would like advice on.

Now, having established that I am not a 'numpty' ...
I did not say that your disqualification here was a disqualification in other countries. You are right that bans are not recognised in other countries (any you are right about the Ireland bit) What I said was that you have to be the holder of a UK licence if you want to drive abroad, as you are driving as a visitor to that country and do not hold a licence there so you are reliant on cross border agreements to recognise each other's driving licences in most countries.. Your problem is that you are NOT the holder of a UK licence. The offence you will be committing is driving without a driving licence. The only way you are getting away with it is that you 'happen to' have a duplicate licence to produce. This should, of course, have been returned when you 'found' it again after declaring that you had lost it to get another one. You will be committing an offence each time you produce it to a Police Officer and deceiving them into thinking that you have a valid UK licence.

On the insurance aspect, are you using UK insurance to drive abroad, in which case have you told them you are disqualified in the UK and therefore do not hold a licence? If so, I very much doubt that they would cover you. If you apply for insurance abroad, the same question would come up about 'Do you hold a licence to drive, are you disqualified etc' and you would still have a problem legally having insurance.


You asked in your original quote about could you drive straight away when your ban is up, and you were correctly advised that you had to have the driving licence in your possession, and wait for the valid date it says for you to drive. But in your case, as you hold a goods vehicle licence, DVLA, whilst giving you back your ordinary licence, will refer you to your local Traffic Commissioner for consideration of IF you should get your HGV licence back. Experience shows that at your reading he / she will want you to appear before them to explain what you did, and what you have learned from the offence. They will then probably withold your HGV part for 1 month for each year you were banned over 12 months.
When arriving at their decision they will take into account such things as: Your conduct since your ban, (feel free to tell them that you have been driving regularly on the continent with no driving licence) If you committed the offence in a goods vehicle and your level of remorse (which would include your reflecting that, whilst you saw no problem with driving off a ferry whilst 3 1/2 times the legal limit limit at the time, because you were 'only' going to park up and sleep it off - which would have taken 15 hours - you have now considered the risk of injury or worse that you put the ferry staff, port staff and other drivers in and you have realised what a fool you were.

Now you can take this honest advice from a 'numpty', who has helped thousands of drivers to get their licences back early, or make sure that when you are caught again you ask for a rehabilitation course to reduce your ban...I have to say thay 95% of the people I deal with on these courses show genuine remorse for what they did, unlike yourself. I for one am hoping that you do not injure or kill someone first.

I hope you don't give this ridiculous advice to people.
You havn't got a clue what you're talking about. The dvla don't withhold the HGV part of my licence for any longer than the ban. The traffic commisioner may do this.
I was parking up for 45 hours. If you was the legal genious that you make out, Then you would have realsied this.

 

[price1367]

I hope you don't give this ridiculous advice to people.
You havn't got a clue what you're talking about. The dvla don't withhold the HGV part of my licence for any longer than the ban. The traffic commisioner may do this.
I was parking up for 45 hours. If you was the legal genious that you make out, Then you would have realsied this.

Can you please read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote:

I said: "But in your case, as you hold a goods vehicle licence, DVLA, whilst giving you back your ordinary licence, will refer you to your local Traffic Commissioner for consideration of IF you should get your HGV licence back."

You say: "The dvla don't withhold the HGV part of my licence for any longer than the ban. The traffic commisioner may do this.

That is what I said! The Traffic Commissioners decide, and their guidelines are to withold the HGV element for a time, for bans over 12 months, depending on the reading that was given, and if a goods vehicle was involved, and the level of remorse shown.

You say: "I was parking up for 45 hours. If you was the legal genious that you make out, Then you would have realsied this."

but you said: "anyway one day i got chatting to some romanians, and police in france. we had some wine before bording the ferry.
then 5 hours later when we disembarked special branch had a sweeney moment, and went all out and arrested me for drink driving. they reckon i was 3.5 times the limit."

so when you say 5 hours later when we disembarked, Special Branch arrested me for drink driving , people are supposed to realise that you were parked up for 45 hours?

Surely if you were parked up for 45 hours you would have been arrested for being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle, not drink driving?

Trying still to give you some practical advice re your driving licence, here is a quote from the direct.Gov website, which sets out how foreign drivers can drive in this country. The guidelines are the same for all European countries for visitors from abroad, but they publish it in other languages, strangely enough:

European Community and European Economic Area

Licences issued in the European Community and European Economic Area make up two groups that are treated equally. The full list is:
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Republic of Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Portugal, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom.

Visitors

If you hold a valid community licence and are visiting GB, you can drive any vehicle if the full entitlement for that vehicle is shown on the licence.


Notice it says: "If you hold a valid community licence." If you are disqualified, you don't. It can't be simpler.

or this from the Which website:


http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/planning-a-booze-cruise/driving-in-france/
Driving laws in France

• You must be at least 18 years old to drive in France and hold a valid UK driving licence. Note that 17 year olds are not allowed to drive in France, even if they hold a full UK licence.
• Third party car insurance is compulsory for all drivers, and you should carry documents with you.

a VALID UK LICENCE, and carry your insurance.... which you have? with being disqualified in the UK?

or this link:

http://www.drivingban.co.uk/drivingban/banneddriving.htm#Can_I_drive_abroad
Can I drive abroad?

If you are disqualified from driving in the UK, your licence will be retained by the DVLA. You will not be able to drive abroad as you will not be able to produce a licence to establish your entitlement to drive.

Here is another quote from direct.gov:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103
Driving in other countries on a GB licence

If you intend driving when visiting or moving to another country, it's important that you understand what is required of you. As a visitor to another country you'll need your Great Britain (GB) driving licence. An international driving permit is also required in certain countries.

Before you go

Make sure:

• the details on your driving licence are up to date
• you take your driving licence with you

• Replacing your driving licence if lost, stolen, defaced or destroyed

Visiting another country

You may use your GB licence for driving in other European Community/European Economic Area [EC/EEA] member states.

AGAIN, it says you must have a UK licence (and goes on to say that you must return a licence if you find the old one when you ask for a replacement)
NO LICENCE...... = NO INSURANCE

Try this one, these guys are experts at defence cases for drink driving:
http://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-y...-from-driving-in-the-uk-will-i-be-able-to-dr/

If you are disqualified from driving by a court in the UK, this will not affect your right to drive elsewhere in the world, unless the domestic law in the country you are in provides for disqualifications from foreign countries to be recognised in their own.
The UK has an agreement in place with the Republic of Ireland where disqualifications imposed in either state will have effect in the other. In other words, if you are disqualified in the UK, this disqualification will also have effect in Ireland. This is the only agreement the UK has with another country in respect of the mutual recognition of a driving disqualification.
However, in order to drive abroad most countries will insist on you having a valid driving licence. In the absence of a valid driving licence you would be unable to hire a car or drive a car hired by someone else. You would also struggle to obtain insurance.
If you decide to drive abroad whilst you are disqualified in this country, although you will not be committing the offence of driving whilst disqualified, you could be committing the offence of driving without a valid licence.

NO LICENCE...... = NO INSURANCE


I could go on showing you examples of how I am right, and hopefully others will read this thread and gather useful information from it, but somehow I think your mind is closed and no reasoned argument will alter it. Can you give one legal source, which can be verified, which shows that you can drive abroad, and that you can have valid insurance as a UK disqualified driver without declaring it, other than "My solicitor said so"?

 

[sanderbobbb]

This is all very well, and it is very clear now that you are assured of your convictions.
However.....there is a point of law I was hoping you might be able to enlighten us upon:

How is a driving licence issued in an EU member state, that is not out of date, that bears the name of the person holding it, and that makes no reference to any disqualification, NOT in fact, a "valid community licence"

?

 

[price1367]

This is all very well, and it is very clear now that you are assured of your convictions.
However.....there is a point of law I was hoping you might be able to enlighten us upon:

How is a driving licence issued in an EU member state, that is not out of date, that bears the name of the person holding it, and that makes no reference to any disqualification, NOT in fact, a "valid community licence"

?

You have answered that question yourself..... A VALID community licence. It is INVALID, because the person has been disqualified not just from driving, but also from holding or obtaining a licence for the duration of their ban and therefore NOT entitled to 'hold' a licence. Otherwise everyone could simply ask for a duplicate in case they get banned, and then continue to drive afterwards here or abroad because they have a licence with no ban on it. The licence may show the ban, the disqualification is real whether shown or not.

You will see below that when disqualified, it includes HOLDING or obtaining a licence:

[h=1]Road Traffic Act 1988[/h]

• Previous: Provision
• Next: Provision

[h=4][F2103Obtaining licence, or driving, while disqualified.E+W[/h]

(1)​

A person is guilty of an offence if, while disqualified for holding or obtaining a licence, he—

(a)​

obtains a licence, or

(b)​

drives a motor vehicle on a road.

(2)​

A licence obtained by a person who is disqualified is of no effect

To drive abroad, you have to be the HOLDER of a current UK licence, and when banned, you are not.

 

[sanderbobbb]

Again I see you are convinced that if you are disqualified from driving in the Uk then you are also not legally allowed to drive abroad. I cannot see in your argument a strong legal basis for this assertion.

You Say:

To drive abroad, you have to be the HOLDER of a current UK licence, and when banned, you are not.

Where do you get this information from? Is there an international law to which all EU member states have signed up to, currently in force, regarding this?

From my understanding, a licence in my possession may be invalid in the UK but nobody can presume that this is therefore invalid in all EU member states. This is a matter for the local jurisidiction. And from my understanding, each EU member state has very different law regarding disqualification.

Also....

If that licence has never been formally cancelled/annulled/rescinded (i.e. the member state who issued it has never asked for it back, or provided you with any legal document which states that you are not entitled to carry it), then you are, by all accounts, the holder of a valid, and current, EU licence.

 

[price1367]

Again I see you are convinced that if you are disqualified from driving in the Uk then you are also not legally allowed to drive abroad. I cannot see in your argument a strong legal basis for this assertion.

You Say:

To drive abroad, you have to be the HOLDER of a current UK licence, and when banned, you are not.

Where do you get this information from? Is there an international law to which all EU member states have signed up to, currently in force, regarding this?

From my understanding, a licence in my possession may be invalid in the UK but nobody can presume that this is therefore invalid in all EU member states. This is a matter for the local jurisidiction. And from my understanding, each EU member state has very different law regarding disqualification.

Also....

If that licence has never been formally cancelled/annulled/rescinded (i.e. the member state who issued it has never asked for it back, or provided you with any legal document which states that you are not entitled to carry it), then you are, by all accounts, the holder of a valid, and current, EU licence.

Here is the DVLA quote on driving abroad. It says that you can use your Driving Licence abroad (not just in Europe, but in any country where our driving licence is recognised as a legal document) but we come back to the fact that a person who has been 'disqualified' by the court is not just disqualified from driving, but disqualified from holding or obtaining a licence. If you are not entitled to hold a licence, how can you possibly then use it abroad under reciprocal arrangements where a country recognises our entitlement to drive here, and allows us to use it in their country?


Driving abroad

You need your Great Britain or Northern Ireland driving licence to drive abroad and an International Driving Permit may be needed in some non-EU countries.

Driving in Europe

You can use your Great Britain (GB) or Northern Ireland driving licence in all European Union (EU) or European Economic Area (EEA) countries, and Switzerland.
The EU/EEA countries are:
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Republic of Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain and Sweden.



As to foreign drivers arriving here, this is the legal position in the UK:


GOV.UK


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Quick answerDriving in Great Britain on a non-GB licence

Start again

1. 1Are you:
   
   a visitor to Great Britain?
   Change this answer
2. 2Where was your licence issued?
   
   Any other country
   Change this answer

If you’ve got a full and valid licence you can drive any small vehicle (eg car or motorcycle) listed on your licence for 12 months from when you last entered Great Britain (GB).



VALID....VALID.....VALID The word keeps cropping up.





As to your question about if there is an international agreement, there are reciprocal agreements with most countries. Here is the directive relating to EU countries:

• These rights and obligations are regulated by EU. ‘Directive’ 91/439/EEC.
• The ‘principles’, as set out in Article 1 (2) of the above ‘Directive stipulates that ‘all’ driving licences have to be ‘mutually’recognized within the European Union.
• Where the holder of a valid driving licence acquires “normal residence” in a Member State other than that which issued the licence, the host country has to recognize the licence. ‘Directive 80/1263/EEC laid down a period of one year during which the exchange had to be carried out by the authorities of the State of residence. This regulation was abolished on 1 July 1996, the date the ‘Directive 91/439/EEC´ came into force. (Click on pink hyperlink to read in directive in full)
• However, it is still possible to exchange licences but it has to be based on a ’purely voluntary’ action on the part of the licence holder.
• At the time of the exchange, the Member State in which the holder has acquired normal residence issues Community model licence of the corresponding category or categories, ‘without the need’ for a theoretical or practical examination. Authorities must however, check that the licence is valid.

Exceptions: -
Article 1 (3) of Directive 91/439/EEC establishes an ‘exception’ to this general principle of mutual recognition. It is noted that - Where the holder of a valid national driving licence takes up normal residence in a Member State, other than that which issued the licence, the host Member State may apply to the holder of the licence its national rules on the ‘period of validity’ of the licence, ‘medical checks’ and tax arrangements and may ‘ enter on the licence’ any information indispensable for Administration.
With regard to the period of ‘validity’ of driving licences. ‘Directive’ 91/439/EEC, therefore allows Member States to apply their national provisions. (An example of this would be where you are age 41 years of age and possess a U. K. licence, which would be valid in the U. K. for another 29 years, whereas in fact Spain does apply her own laws of validity. A further example can be drawn from the old grey coloured German licence, which was issued for life. This licence as well is a valid drivers licence, although its period of validity has now been reduced. These These periods of validity vary from State-to-State.



Once again, It talks about a VALID driving licence.

You surely cannot be saying that a person who has not surrendered their licence, even though they have been disqualified, is still the holder of a licence because they hold it in their hand...? If that were true, no one would hand their licence over when they are disqualified. Or they apply for a duplicate, then when banned they hand in one licence but they still HOLD another one so that is OK...?

What happens when you get your licence back....? Following your logic you would not tell the insurance company that you have a disqualification in the past 5 years.... because it is not on your licence. (but you do have a disqualification, properly recorded in the court records and at DVLA) See what the insurance company makes of that when they find out about your false declaration to obtain insurance.

So you are NOT banned from driving abroad, with the exception or Northern Ireland, The Republic of Ireland and The Isle of Man where we have reciprocal arrangements to recognise each others disqualifications. This means that you could go abroad, apply for a licence to drive and pass a test there and be able to drive anywhere in the world, except here.
Using your logic, you could drive in England because you now hold a valid licence from abroad. But you can't, because you, the person, are disqualified.


You also say:

"If that licence has never been formally cancelled/annulled/rescinded (i.e. the member state who issued it has never asked for it back, or provided you with any legal document which states that you are not entitled to carry it), then you are, by all accounts, the holder of a valid, and current, EU licence."


When you are disqualified in court, you are told by the magistrates that you are disqualified from holding or obtaining a licence for a period of .... "X" months / years.
You are required to surrender your licence to the court. DVLA then write to you to confirm the disqualification. (at the address on your licence)
Surely this is legal enough for you when a Magistrate tells you to your face?
If you tell the court you have lost the licence, or surrender one but keep a duplicate you previously applied for, this does not then make it a valid driving licence.

 

[sanderbobbb]

So you are NOT banned from driving abroad, with the exception or Northern Ireland, The Republic of Ireland and The Isle of Man where we have reciprocal arrangements to recognise each others disqualifications. This means that you could go abroad, apply for a licence to drive and pass a test there and be able to drive anywhere in the world, except here.

However, until a court in Northern Ireland, The Republic of Ireland and The Isle of Man upholds the original court order, you are not disqualified from driving there (it is not automatic, it must be upheld by a court).

You are correct in saying it may be difficult to get insurance, but this is not the same as saying that you are DISQUALIFIED abroad when disqualified at home.

The Directive you refer to is merely a directive, not a law, to which only the UK, Ireland and Isle of Man have signed up to.

I still can't for the life of me see how you get the idea that there is an international law which states that an EU member disqualified is automatically disqualified in another EU member state.

And until you've established a stronger case, I think we all agree that you are not disqualified from driving in Europe by virtue of being disqualified in the UK.

 

[price1367]

Oh dear, you are clearly not reading what I have put in my last reply, and previous ones.

i have never said that you are disqualified from driving abroad if you are disqualified here, with the exceptions I quoted.

What I have said, with the quotes from practice, DVLA paperwork, and even defence lawyer websites, is that you will be driving abroad without a licence. That is NOT driving whilst disqualified,but all other countries will require you to be the holder of a valid driving licence to drive there as a visitor from the UK, because you do not hold a licence in that country you are visiting. They recognise a valid UK licence for a specified period of time, which varies throughout the world, after which you have to exchange it for one of theirs.

When you are stopped by the Gendarmes, you will show them a duplicate driving licence to make out that you hold a valid driving licence in the UK, failing to mention that your entitlement to drive has been rescinded, deceive them and may well get away with it. If you are involved in an accident and they check your licence with the UK to see if is valid, the answer will be no, and you will have problems because you have no licence, English or French.

Is there anyone else reading this who has a problem understanding what is so clear in all my previous messages?

You seem as stubborn as LimeyPhil who went away after I set the whole thing out clearly..... Or is this you again with a new name, still head in the sand driving in Europe for a living during a 3 year ban.....? If so, your time will come when checks are made when you are involved in a RTC.

 

[sanderbobbb]

what I'm contending, and what you haven't dealth with, is the fact that INVALIDITY of a driving licence in UK does not presume INVALIDITY of your licence to drive in another EU member state

it is a grey area at best, and should not be referred to as if it's black and white

 

[price1367]

I am away from my computer, so cannot cut and paste relevant links.

www.dds.ga.gov. (Website for Georgia USA drivers department)

quote: Georgia recognises valid driver licences issued to and held by residents of other countries as long as the 'out of country' licence is valid.

that cannot mean that your invalid licence in the UK is valid there, can it?


and this for Germany:


www.rhein_kreis_neuss.de/de/buerger...strassenverkehr/mb_fs_umshreibung_english.pdf

driving licence provisions:

Should you hold a valid national or international driving licence you may drive vehicles of such classes in the Federal Republic of Germany as are indicated on your driving licence. Here you will have to observe the obligations and restrictions relating to your driving licence.

So Sanderbobbb / limeyPhil, what are your obligations and restrictions in the UK?

you have a duplicate driving licence, which DVLA rules say you must return if you find the original. You are disqualified from driving on UK roads or from holding or obtaining a licence in the UK, but hey, I have been dishonest about my duplicate so I can pretend I have a valid licence from the UK, which makes it valid in Germany because they allow that sort of thing,,,, But they don't, do they, as you can now see.

I could do some more research, to show the blindingly obvious but it is taking up my time and I will never be such an idiot as to try driving abroad in these circumstances.
I trust others will have read this and learned from it, I doubt that you will.

To be legal, why not just take a test in a foreign country, obtain a licence and then drive throughout the world as a visitor, just not the UK for the period of your ban

ps, can you find a quote from a document that says "you can drive in our country with your invalid driving licence because it will still be valid in our country" Come on, you do some leg work instead of just knocking what I have shown, and shown with quotes.

 

[chris125]

Price, he is either winding you up or he simply doesn't understand.
His hypothesis is similar to someone having £1m in a bank account, getting a bank statement to prove it, then going and spending the money whilst still insisting that he has £1m in the bank coz his old bank statement says so!!

 

[price1367]

Chris125,
you have hit the nail in the head!! There was me researching to find the proof Sanderbobb / LimeyPhil was demanding, any your analogy sums it up perfectly. Perhaps he is one of the Ocean elevens....... He plans to take a losing lottery ticket to France and claim that just because it is a losing ticket here, doesn't stop it being a winning one there.
Or even a winning one, but out of date. Once in France however, why shouldn't it be a winning one? Ah yes, it still has to be valid in the UK to claim.

Chris, I salute you!

 

[chris125]

You're welcome price.
To be honest I wish you weren't saluting me.
The only reason I posted was because I read the previous posts.
The only reason I read them was because I was on this site.
And the only reason I'm on this site is because I too am one of the many fools who thought it was OK to drink and drive and am now searching for any crumb of comfort to make me feel better

 

[price1367]

You're welcome price.
To be honest I wish you weren't saluting me.
The only reason I posted was because I read the previous posts.
The only reason I read them was because I was on this site.
And the only reason I'm on this site is because I too am one of the many fools who thought it was OK to drink and drive and am now searching for any crumb of comfort to make me feel better

I have sent you a PM.