Driving licence revoked due to expected alcohol abuse

Convicted Driver Insurance

PaddyRay

Member
Here we go; first time user of the forum.
I am 70yrs old and July 2015 applied for D1 license renewal. I drive a mini-bus for a local charity.
I downloaded the application from the DVLA's website. Of course I had and paid for a medical. Stupid me I answered all the questions regarding alcohol truthfully.
One month later I received the whole application back pointing out I had not ticked two boxes regarding my ability to read a number plate at a certain distance. No one at the DVLA thought to refer to the doctor's medical report attached where a full eye test had been recorded.
Another month passed when I received the whole lot back again this time informing me it was the wrong form and the correct one for completion included. (Difference between the two forms was the colour)
End of December 2015 DVLA requested I attend a medical at a specified surgery. I was given no information regarding their suspicions. I assumed it was to do with my past Arrhythmia problems.
After much chasing plus letters to my MP I received on 14th March 2016 a letter revoking my license due to suspected alcohol abuse. I have been given 6 months for my normal license and 1 year for mini-bus. The usual. This ban was awarded suddenly and without prior notice.
Had I been caught drinking and driving, after my night in the police call I would then be able to carry on driving until the outcome of my court case. In the meantime I could arrange my personal affairs with a future ban possibly imminent. If it was my first conviction and I could prove a ban on my driving would have detrimental effects on others there is a possibility I could retain my licence. My only redress to my SENTENCE WITHOUT TRIAL(because that is what it is) is through the magistrates courts which is a criminal court and I have committed no criminal offence.
The people affected by this (unlawful) sentence is untold. Family, charity customers of the charity who relied on the services I provided and who now need to recruit, train and certify another driver.
I do admit to drifting into a lifestyle were I dine out regularly and have been drinking most evenings. I am of that age and can afford it. I do not get drunk neither do I knowingly drive whilst over the limit.
I wrote to Mr Morley CEO, DVLA. to point out the total injustice of their procedures. That there could be a better, more cost effective way to deal with this problem without suddenly taking all driving rights away. When I received their letter I immediately abstained from drinking with no detrimental effects. Therefore the suspicion of alcohol abuse, in my case, immediately disappeared. I suggest:
1. Driving licence would not be renewed but the driver could still drive under the DVLA's letter of authority. (although they suspected me of alcohol abuse back in September 2015 they still allowed me to drive through to March2016)
2. I undergo further test over however long period to ensure my drinking was under control and maybe I meet some of those costs. (When I received my letter revoking my licence I immediately abstained, with no detrimental effects)
3. Should I fail the tests then an automatic ban be applied.
4. After the given period of testing then the license be re-instated.

The DVLA's response to these suggestion is what appears to be typical, given what I have read. They treat my letter as a complaint not a suggestion and dismissed it out of hand. They defend the status quo.

Regarding CDT. I have read in a number of web articles CDT is only accurate for a period of 14 days.
Also it must be 14 days of "continuous" drinking with no interval. Should someone
drink huge quantities of alcohol for 4-5 days per week but abstain on the other days allowing the body to recover then this will give a low CDT %.

As suggested by the DVLA I immediately made an appointment with my doctor who had no idea how to proceed. He has arranged a blood test to ensure my liver is OK but I suspect there to be little chance of that given I had a medical review just over a month ago with the exact same blood test and a green light. Basically the DVLA have passed the buck onto an already overburdened GP practice.
Remember I have not been convicted and given a formal ban so when and how can I reapply for my licence? I read many of you receive a formal invite from the DVLA 3 months in advance but that appears to be those with drink-driving bans.

If I were to take my case through he magistrates court my 6 months sentence will be up plus there is the cost. I really think there is a case in the Human rights court but unfortunately I can not afford the money. Try and lobby your MP but which one will be brave enough to get past the word "alcohol" and then look at their constituent's rights, not many. Plus, ask your MP to lobby the minister for transport is asking them to attack a senior member of their own party and that is also not likely. The DVLA knows and is banking on this.
 
Re: The DVLA Medical test, CDT and an individual case study

Here we go; first time user of the forum.
I am 70yrs old and July 2015 applied for D1 license renewal. I drive a mini-bus for a local charity.
I downloaded the application from the DVLA's website. Of course I had and paid for a medical. Stupid me I answered all the questions regarding alcohol truthfully.
One month later I received the whole application back pointing out I had not ticked two boxes regarding my ability to read a number plate at a certain distance. No one at the DVLA thought to refer to the doctor's medical report attached where a full eye test had been recorded.
Another month passed when I received the whole lot back again this time informing me it was the wrong form and the correct one for completion included. (Difference between the two forms was the colour)
End of December 2015 DVLA requested I attend a medical at a specified surgery. I was given no information regarding their suspicions. I assumed it was to do with my past Arrhythmia problems.
After much chasing plus letters to my MP I received on 14th March 2016 a letter revoking my license due to suspected alcohol abuse. I have been given 6 months for my normal license and 1 year for mini-bus. The usual. This ban was awarded suddenly and without prior notice.
Had I been caught drinking and driving, after my night in the police call I would then be able to carry on driving until the outcome of my court case. In the meantime I could arrange my personal affairs with a future ban possibly imminent. If it was my first conviction and I could prove a ban on my driving would have detrimental effects on others there is a possibility I could retain my licence. My only redress to my SENTENCE WITHOUT TRIAL(because that is what it is) is through the magistrates courts which is a criminal court and I have committed no criminal offence.
The people affected by this (unlawful) sentence is untold. Family, charity customers of the charity who relied on the services I provided and who now need to recruit, train and certify another driver.
I do admit to drifting into a lifestyle were I dine out regularly and have been drinking most evenings. I am of that age and can afford it. I do not get drunk neither do I knowingly drive whilst over the limit.
I wrote to Mr Morley CEO, DVLA. to point out the total injustice of their procedures. That there could be a better, more cost effective way to deal with this problem without suddenly taking all driving rights away. When I received their letter I immediately abstained from drinking with no detrimental effects. Therefore the suspicion of alcohol abuse, in my case, immediately disappeared. I suggest:
1. Driving licence would not be renewed but the driver could still drive under the DVLA's letter of authority. (although they suspected me of alcohol abuse back in September 2015 they still allowed me to drive through to March2016)
2. I undergo further test over however long period to ensure my drinking was under control and maybe I meet some of those costs. (When I received my letter revoking my licence I immediately abstained, with no detrimental effects)
3. Should I fail the tests then an automatic ban be applied.
4. After the given period of testing then the license be re-instated.

The DVLA's response to these suggestion is what appears to be typical, given what I have read. They treat my letter as a complaint not a suggestion and dismissed it out of hand. They defend the status quo.

Regarding CDT. I have read in a number of web articles CDT is only accurate for a period of 14 days.
Also it must be 14 days of "continuous" drinking with no interval. Should someone
drink huge quantities of alcohol for 4-5 days per week but abstain on the other days allowing the body to recover then this will give a low CDT %.

As suggested by the DVLA I immediately made an appointment with my doctor who had no idea how to proceed. He has arranged a blood test to ensure my liver is OK but I suspect there to be little chance of that given I had a medical review just over a month ago with the exact same blood test and a green light. Basically the DVLA have passed the buck onto an already overburdened GP practice.
Remember I have not been convicted and given a formal ban so when and how can I reapply for my licence? I read many of you receive a formal invite from the DVLA 3 months in advance but that appears to be those with drink-driving bans.

If I were to take my case through he magistrates court my 6 months sentence will be up plus there is the cost. I really think there is a case in the Human rights court but unfortunately I can not afford the money. Try and lobby your MP but which one will be brave enough to get past the word "alcohol" and then look at their constituent's rights, not many. Plus, ask your MP to lobby the minister for transport is asking them to attack a senior member of their own party and that is also not likely. The DVLA knows and is banking on this.


Interesting to read your post, thank you for sharing with us. I had no idea that DVLA could do this..obviously if someone were to develop seizures, fainting fits or intermittent paralysis or similar then I can see that their ability to drive could certainly be compromised but to be banned because of answers provided to a general health questionnaire? There's no indication of when you indulge and how long you give yourself before getting behind the wheel again provided by the answers you give to these questions. Am I right in thinking it's the same questionnaire that us high risk offender drink drivers have to go through during our medical exam to get our licenses back? As you say you haven't been caught, breathalized, arrested, charged or convicted.. There is a section on this forum where you can submit your questions to a solicitor who specializes in drink driving cases, not that you're a drink driver! I've not posted a question there but from what I've seen, the responses have always been very prompt..

Just to clarify about the blood test for CDT (for HRO DDers who are approaching submitting their applications, who might be reading this), which is the only biomarker the DVLA currently use to test for levels of alcohol consumption. A CDT reading can give a pretty good indication of consistent alcohol consumption of levels above about 60mg a day. It's actually quite easy to reach these levels so it's hard to quantify a 'huge amount'. There are 8mg (or 10ml) of pure alcohol in 1 standard UK unit. If you were to have 3 pints of 'Spitfire' draught ale (as an example), certainly not heavy drinking in my opinion, you would be consuming 7.6 units or 61g of alcohol.
Several posters on this forum report that they have been 'caught out' by a one off binge which has elevated their CDT despite otherwise abstaining. So 'heavy' drinking 4/5 nights out of 7 will almost certainly produce an elevated CDT level.

In my case, in the months prior to my medical, I was drinking 8-10 units a day, rarely having a day off. I abstained for 23 days, whilst maintaining my otherwise healthy diet and exercise regime. My test results came back at 1.0%, perfectly acceptable and well within the parameters of the 'green zone' of the traffic light system used by DVLA to differentiate between the levels of risk. Another poster here observed just shy of 4 weeks abstinence and achieved a reading of 0.9%...

The longer you stay dry before the medical the better, I certainly would never want to give it only 14 days.
 
Re: The DVLA Medical test, CDT and an individual case study

Had I been caught drinking and driving, after my night in the police call I would then be able to carry on driving until the outcome of my court case. In the meantime I could arrange my personal affairs with a future ban possibly imminent. If it was my first conviction and I could prove a ban on my driving would have detrimental effects on others there is a possibility I could retain my licence.

It is true that you could continue driving until you were convicted of the alleged offence, however, it is untrue that if you could prove that a driving disqualification would have detrimental effects on others that there would be a possibility you could retain your driving licence upon conviction. A driving disqualification is mandatory upon conviction of driving with excess alcohol.

The only way to possibly avoid disqualification is to successfully argue special reasons and any reason put forward must be directly related to the commission of the offence. Extreme hardship caused to the offender (or others) as a result of a driving disqualification would not amount to a special reason not to disqualify.

After much chasing plus letters to my MP I received on 14th March 2016 a letter revoking my license due to suspected alcohol abuse. I have been given 6 months for my normal license and 1 year for mini-bus. The usual. This ban was awarded suddenly and without prior notice.

Basically the DVLA have passed the buck onto an already overburdened GP practice.
Remember I have not been convicted and given a formal ban so when and how can I reapply for my licence?

As the DVLA have revoked your driving licence for a period of 6 months, you will be able to re-apply for your driving licence 8 weeks before the end of this period as outlined here.
 
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Re: The DVLA Medical test, CDT and an individual case study

Shouldaknownbetter
Thank you for the legal guidance page info where I have posted my ramblings. Lets see what happens.

I agree and would not abstain for just 14 days to try and bet the CDT test but I was trying to point out that some people's lives can be altered beyond comprehension by this test and without legal redress.
 
Re: The DVLA Medical test, CDT and an individual case study

Shouldaknownbetter
Thank you for the legal guidance page info where I have posted my ramblings. Lets see what happens.

I agree and would not abstain for just 14 days to try and bet the CDT test but I was trying to point out that some people's lives can be altered beyond comprehension by this test and without legal redress.

I understand, I just wanted to point that out should someone read it whilst looking for advice before embarking on their journey toward their own medical exam.
 
Re: The DVLA Medical test, CDT and an individual case study

Here we go; first time user of the forum.
I am 70yrs old and July 2015 applied for D1 license renewal. I drive a mini-bus for a local charity.
I downloaded the application from the DVLA's website. Of course I had and paid for a medical. Stupid me I answered all the questions regarding alcohol truthfully.
One month later I received the whole application back pointing out I had not ticked two boxes regarding my ability to read a number plate at a certain distance. No one at the DVLA thought to refer to the doctor's medical report attached where a full eye test had been recorded.
Another month passed when I received the whole lot back again this time informing me it was the wrong form and the correct one for completion included. (Difference between the two forms was the colour)
End of December 2015 DVLA requested I attend a medical at a specified surgery. I was given no information regarding their suspicions. I assumed it was to do with my past Arrhythmia problems.
After much chasing plus letters to my MP I received on 14th March 2016 a letter revoking my license due to suspected alcohol abuse. I have been given 6 months for my normal license and 1 year for mini-bus. The usual. This ban was awarded suddenly and without prior notice.
Had I been caught drinking and driving, after my night in the police call I would then be able to carry on driving until the outcome of my court case. In the meantime I could arrange my personal affairs with a future ban possibly imminent. If it was my first conviction and I could prove a ban on my driving would have detrimental effects on others there is a possibility I could retain my licence. My only redress to my SENTENCE WITHOUT TRIAL(because that is what it is) is through the magistrates courts which is a criminal court and I have committed no criminal offence.
The people affected by this (unlawful) sentence is untold. Family, charity customers of the charity who relied on the services I provided and who now need to recruit, train and certify another driver.
I do admit to drifting into a lifestyle were I dine out regularly and have been drinking most evenings. I am of that age and can afford it. I do not get drunk neither do I knowingly drive whilst over the limit.
I wrote to Mr Morley CEO, DVLA. to point out the total injustice of their procedures. That there could be a better, more cost effective way to deal with this problem without suddenly taking all driving rights away. When I received their letter I immediately abstained from drinking with no detrimental effects. Therefore the suspicion of alcohol abuse, in my case, immediately disappeared. I suggest:
1. Driving licence would not be renewed but the driver could still drive under the DVLA's letter of authority. (although they suspected me of alcohol abuse back in September 2015 they still allowed me to drive through to March2016)
2. I undergo further test over however long period to ensure my drinking was under control and maybe I meet some of those costs. (When I received my letter revoking my licence I immediately abstained, with no detrimental effects)
3. Should I fail the tests then an automatic ban be applied.
4. After the given period of testing then the license be re-instated.

The DVLA's response to these suggestion is what appears to be typical, given what I have read. They treat my letter as a complaint not a suggestion and dismissed it out of hand. They defend the status quo.

Regarding CDT. I have read in a number of web articles CDT is only accurate for a period of 14 days.
Also it must be 14 days of "continuous" drinking with no interval. Should someone
drink huge quantities of alcohol for 4-5 days per week but abstain on the other days allowing the body to recover then this will give a low CDT %.

As suggested by the DVLA I immediately made an appointment with my doctor who had no idea how to proceed. He has arranged a blood test to ensure my liver is OK but I suspect there to be little chance of that given I had a medical review just over a month ago with the exact same blood test and a green light. Basically the DVLA have passed the buck onto an already overburdened GP practice.
Remember I have not been convicted and given a formal ban so when and how can I reapply for my licence? I read many of you receive a formal invite from the DVLA 3 months in advance but that appears to be those with drink-driving bans.

If I were to take my case through he magistrates court my 6 months sentence will be up plus there is the cost. I really think there is a case in the Human rights court but unfortunately I can not afford the money. Try and lobby your MP but which one will be brave enough to get past the word "alcohol" and then look at their constituent's rights, not many. Plus, ask your MP to lobby the minister for transport is asking them to attack a senior member of their own party and that is also not likely. The DVLA knows and is banking on this.


Had I been caught drinking and driving, after my night in the police call I would then be able to carry on driving until the outcome of my court case. In the meantime I could arrange my personal affairs with a future ban possibly imminent. If it was my first conviction and I could prove a ban on my driving would have detrimental effects on others there is a possibility I could retain my licence


People can be charged on say a Saturday night and then appear in court on the following Tuesday. So its pot luck as the whether you would get any real time to arrange your personal affairs. With regards to a first conviction, or any drink drive conviction, you would be banned for a minimum of 12 months. There are no exceptions, and there would be no possibility of retaining your licence. You would be banned 100%.

Sure the forms are annoying, but the DVLA process thousands each week, and you didn't complete yours when you failed to answer those questions. You cant expect the DVLA to pre-empt your answers and make an exception. That's your error.

The DVLA haven't "banned" you; they have revoked your licence and you are now excluded from reapplying for six months. Harsh I agree, but the process is in place, and its fool proof in terms appeals. Unless you can prove that you have given a false positive to the CDT blood test then you are bound to fail in an appeal. The test is accurate, and there are no known conditions that can give a false positive; that's why the DVLA chose this type of blood test to replace the old liver function tests, which had become notorious for giving false positives.

If you hold a DVLA driving licence then the DVLA can at anytime and without notice, request a medical. That's how it works, so your human rights haven't been breached.

What you need to do is request your CDT results from the DVLA, from the original medical. You then need to have a private CDT test and check the results. You will have to request your results from the DVLA in writing. Your GP as you described above is checking your liver function via a blood test; but that isn't what the DVLA use anymore. You need a CDT test.

You will need to abstain for a period of 4 to 12 weeks depending. That is usually enough.

The annoying thing with regards to the exclusion is that you will probably be okay to pass the test after six weeks of abstinence, which begs as to why the DVLA exclude you for 26 weeks. Its a stealth ban really. They tell you that you need to undergo controlled drinking for 26 weeks, but how would they know if you have or haven't. As long as you give it six weeks of abstinence you will usually pass; 12 weeks at the absolute most, so still half of what the DVLA are excluding you for.

It could have been worse, as they can and do exclude people for 12 months. For that your CDT levels have to be over 3% I would guess, but nobody really knows exactly what percentage would trigger a 12 month exclusion.

M
 
Mclanelli
To the point?
Everything you say is almost perfectly correct. However that is my grip. You like the DVLA quote the rules and regulations. I want them to question the rules and how they apply them. My points I have not been convicted of anything and have been banned from driving for a period of time. I, unlike the DVLA have proposed an alternative and more just way.
Regarding your statement "
There are no exceptions, and there would be no possibility of retaining your licence. You would be banned 100%".I am aware of a number of cases were the 12 month ban was wavered because the defendant was able to prove others depended on their ability to drive so would suffer unnecessary hardship should the license not be retained. For example, the only salesman with a company who's employees relied the defendant travelling to and visiting customers otherwise they would lose their jobs.
One of my son's friends is a barrister who used this argument and retained his licence. He is no longer practising law but represents his constituents in parliament.
Hopefully you can now see why I mentioned my plight and inability to present my case at court (if i could afford it)
 
Mclanelli
To the point?
Everything you say is almost perfectly correct. However that is my grip. You like the DVLA quote the rules and regulations. I want them to question the rules and how they apply them. My points I have not been convicted of anything and have been banned from driving for a period of time. I, unlike the DVLA have proposed an alternative and more just way.
Regarding your statement "
There are no exceptions, and there would be no possibility of retaining your licence. You would be banned 100%".I am aware of a number of cases were the 12 month ban was wavered because the defendant was able to prove others depended on their ability to drive so would suffer unnecessary hardship should the license not be retained. For example, the only salesman with a company who's employees relied the defendant travelling to and visiting customers otherwise they would lose their jobs.
One of my son's friends is a barrister who used this argument and retained his licence. He is no longer practising law but represents his constituents in parliament.
Hopefully you can now see why I mentioned my plight and inability to present my case at court (if i could afford it)

I am happy to be corrected but I believe Mclanelli is right. Causing unnecessary hardship to others does not constitute special reasons for a ban not to be imposed for the simple reason that everyone would have a hardship story (the special reasons are very narrowly defined and described elsewhere on this forum many times) I suspect that your son's 'friend' (imaginary or otherwise) did not fall into this category.
 
There has only ever been the "special reasons" to not disqualify, pertaining to the actual reason for driving on that journey, it has never been the case where hardship has allowed someone to keep their licence when convicted of drink driving in the circumstances that paddyryan has described. When a person is prosecurpted for being 'in charge' rather than driving whilst over the limit then the court does have discretion to not disqualify, or disqualify for less than 12 months which is the mandatory starting point for drink driving. If no ban is given in these circumstances then 9-10 points are awarded, so if a person is a 'new driver' then they face the prospect of having to take their test again.
where a ban is considered for "totting up' then a likely ban can be avoided if hardship can be shown, but definitely not in drink driving cases.
 
We digress.
My wife can not drive so she is now reliant on public transport which is scarce. she has a heart problem which adds to the problem. My grandson of 13yrs is signed to a professional football team with high hopes. However it means he MUST attend games which my son takes him to. My son is a serving member in the army so when he is away, which is frequent I step in as taxi driver. I can go on...
My point is I am being punished, not for a breaking the law but for a way of life which is deemed outside of the norm. Using the drink/drive scenario the driver generally knows he is taking a risk and is breaking the law. I was taking no risk except with my own health and breaking no laws.
OK I have a responsibility to change my ways and I immediately did so and can prove it so why the ban for six months? If I could not immediately change my ways then I have a serious problem and I agree I should be taken of the road.
Before you reply please be objective. do not just quote the law/rules. Think, is there a better and more just and fair way to deal with this?
 
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