Is disqualification the answer?

Convicted Driver Insurance

europhil

Well Known Member
I've just spent 8 weeks of a 16 week sentence in prison for driving whilst disqualified.
It was probably the longest 8 weeks of my life. It was a real prison, not a softly softly holiday camp.
I'm pretty much used to being away from home, I used to spend up to 6 weeks away in my lorry.
I think if people were sent down for say 8 weeks (they'll do 4) for a first offence of drink driving, Then the message would be much more hard hitting than a fine and a ban.
Disqualifications are a drain on the ecconomy, people can't work, they don't pay tax, they could lose their house. Should his family be made to suffer because of a single cockup?

What are your views?
 
I've just spent 8 weeks of a 16 week sentence in prison for driving whilst disqualified.
It was probably the longest 8 weeks of my life. It was a real prison, not a softly softly holiday camp.
I'm pretty much used to being away from home, I used to spend up to 6 weeks away in my lorry.
I think if people were sent down for say 8 weeks (they'll do 4) for a first offence of drink driving, Then the message would be much more hard hitting than a fine and a ban.
Disqualifications are a drain on the ecconomy, people can't work, they don't pay tax, they could lose their house. Should his family be made to suffer because of a single cockup?

What are your views?

Hi Phil.

Personally, I think a prison sentence for a first drink driving offence is too harsh. I am all for prison being a last resort for 1st offences (dependent on reading level) with many alternatives available such as community orders, curfews, suspended sentences etc available.

As driving is not a right but a privilege I feel a disqualification i.e taking away that privilege is the correct punishment for drink driving.

Perhaps a suspended sentence and a disqualification for a second offence would be more appropriate. The real possibility of prison would make anyone think twice.

The courts do not take it lightly when a sentence is passed and then broken (as in your case) so it should be pointed out that you were not given a custodial sentence for drink driving, it was for driving whilst disqualified.

It can be argued that a disqualification will affect people more than others so can been seen as unfair to those who rely on a licence for driving, however I am of the opinion that if someone relies on their licence for a living that they should be extra careful in regards to all motoring offences that may affect their ability to hold that licence.

Should his family be made to suffer because of a single cockup?

Should that first time cock up result in a custodial sentence, his family would undoubtedly suffer a lot more in the long term compared to a disqualification. Having a custodial sentence on record will affect that person with regards to all jobs more than a drink driving disqualification.

I hope you can put this behind you and enjoy a new start in 2014.
 
I've just spent 8 weeks of a 16 week sentence in prison for driving whilst disqualified.
It was probably the longest 8 weeks of my life. It was a real prison, not a softly softly holiday camp.
I'm pretty much used to being away from home, I used to spend up to 6 weeks away in my lorry.
I think if people were sent down for say 8 weeks (they'll do 4) for a first offence of drink driving, Then the message would be much more hard hitting than a fine and a ban.
Disqualifications are a drain on the ecconomy, people can't work, they don't pay tax, they could lose their house. Should his family be made to suffer because of a single cockup?

What are your views?

I would imagine its really down to individual circumstances, if I were single with no ties then perhaps 4 weeks in prison may be better than a ban, but I am a Mum to a 6 year old child and 4 days in prison would have been heart wrenching let alone 4 weeks...my biggest fear throughout the process was to be sent to prison....so for me a disqualification although only 6 months for my charge, was better. yes my income dropped, yes my overheads from a travel point of view increased, but I was still free to look after my child and be there for her...I still haven't drunk a thing, although back driving since November, the lesson is learnt my end....I will never forget it.

Moodle
 
I would imagine its really down to individual circumstances, if I were single with no ties then perhaps 4 weeks in prison may be better than a ban, but I am a Mum to a 6 year old child and 4 days in prison would have been heart wrenching let alone 4 weeks...my biggest fear throughout the process was to be sent to prison....so for me a disqualification although only 6 months for my charge, was better. yes my income dropped, yes my overheads from a travel point of view increased, but I was still free to look after my child and be there for her...I still haven't drunk a thing, although back driving since November, the lesson is learnt my end....I will never forget it.

Moodle

Moodle is very correct when saying it is down to the individual circumstances. My reply above excluded any aggravating factors such as causing an accident, very high level of alcohol, fleeing the scene etc.

With aggravating factors (dependent on what they are) a custodial sentence can be considered for a 1st offence.
 
I think this is a good point to raise. personally having gone through the whole scenario myself I would have preferred the option of prison for say four weeks?, I think it would have had the same devastating result as a ban. Loosing my licence made life almost impossible as I live in a rural area with maybe two buses a week so my life was turned upside down for 13 months. I think the main point in punishing someone is so they learn a lesson which I most certainly have, but the choice of prison in comparison with the inconvenience would have been a better option. Just my opinion.
 
I am one month into a 12 month ban for failing to provide, I asked my solicitor if I could do a short stint inside instead of loosing my licence but unfortunately thats not a option available to the magistrates. I've never done any bird but its got to be better getting it all over with than the hardship I am going through.
 
Some people lose their job when they are convicted of drink driving, but most people are able to stay employed.
how many of those who kept their job would in fact lose their job through being in prison for a month?
It would be more than a month in many cases as it would be unfair to give everyone the same prison term irrespective of their reading or circumstances.
What about single parents, how many children would this lead to being taken into care whilst the driver is in prison?
What about the drink driver who has a severe drink problem which only comes to notice when they are caught? At the moment there is at least a 9 month window (if they do a drink drive course) where they can get treatment prior to getting their licence back. 4 weeks inside, followed by a big session to celebrate release prior to driving the next day does not seem like a good idea to me......
Prison should be, and is, available for exceptional cases, and I think that is where it should remain.
In Europhil's case, prison was not given for a one off mistake. The one off was drink driving, with no prison. if a person gets into their car, having made their mistake, having been told by the court to not drive a motor vehicle and, knowing they have no insurance, then drives their car......
Bit in his case it was worse than that, whilst disqualified he took employment as a lorry driver again and drove for weeks, knowing it was wrong to even apply for the job. Hardly what I would call a 'one off mistake'.
Who can be blamed when the family suffer from the consequences as well?
 
I think the prospect of a mandatory prison sentence would deter the majority of people from driving with even the slightlest bit of alcohol inside them.
Then there's the foreign drivers, They may get a lengthy ban and a fine, Then they go home and never come back. They may pay the fine but the disqualification means nothing to them.
 
I agree what you say about the foreign drivers, except they probably don't pay the fines either, just ask for 14 days to pay!
I doubt we would be allowed to introduce a system where Uk people got one punishment and visitors another though.
i am not sure how we would get the message across about "you WILL go to jail. " the message currently is; "you WILL lose your licence." Yet people are still surprised when they do.
Also, if people are saying that it would be preferable to go to prison for a month, rather than be banned, would there not be headlines of: "authorities go easy on drink drivers, new lesser punishment introduced........"?
my other worry is that if everyone knew they were going to jail, how many would stand round waiting for the police to arrive after an accident? Probably there would be far more "fail to stop."
 
Hi Price1367,
You say it would be unfair to give everyone the same sentence for drink driving. I disagree, at the moment I think it is unfair as some people loosing the licence means nothing, eg the rich or those who can still work.
should be the same for everyone, if I was to murder a man I would get the same sentence as someone who is rich but for drink driving I get the same sentence as a rich person yet it affects me more. Like alot of things I suppose but the law should be applied to all regardless of wealth to have the same impact.
Rant over.
 
Hi Price1367,
You say it would be unfair to give everyone the same sentence for drink driving. I disagree, at the moment I think it is unfair as some people loosing the licence means nothing, eg the rich or those who can still work.
should be the same for everyone, if I was to murder a man I would get the same sentence as someone who is rich but for drink driving I get the same sentence as a rich person yet it affects me more. Like alot of things I suppose but the law should be applied to all regardless of wealth to have the same impact.
Rant over.

Whilst I understand what you are saying, the sentences handed down by the Courts must be fair to everyone regardless of financial status.

The ramifications of that sentence whatever that may be may well affect people differently but that has nothing to do with fairness of the sentence passed.

Someone cannot be punished more because losing their licence wont affect them as much as someone else. Losing the licence is the punishment.
 
I think what would be fair is if there was a mandatory ban which the magistrates have to stick to. I found it completely wrong that when I went on my drink driving course that someone who had a much higher reading than I did got 4 months less ban than myself because she was a carer for her Father and yet I am a single parent with three children, sole carer for them and living in a remote area, I also paid for a solicitor to attend court and put my circumstances forward, in hind sight that was the biggest waste of money ever. I've had my licence back since July but I still come on here to read people's stories and I think it's completely wrong that it seems some get off with lighter than others.
 
There are so many variations in circumstances of the offence that there has to be some flexibility in how they are sentenced.
if someone has a reading of between 60 and 89, the guidelines are for a 17 to 22 month ban.
there will be an occasion, perhaps, where someone has a reading of 88, but was driving along a country road at 2am with a brake light not working. Another person has a reading of 61, but is speeding past a school at 3.30pm with children coming out. They first could get the 17 month ban, where the second one gets a 22 month ban. That is the flexibility that magistrates have. The only thing they cannot flex is the minimum 12 month ban, but that has been the case since 1967.
They can differentiate with people better off by increasing the fine, but that is limited to £5,000 so some would not be affected by that.
some people are dependant on a licence for work, so they lose their job, some do not need their licence for work so keep their job. In a fair world this should not happen, you could say, but if a job involves driving, and you cannot drive, what else can be done?
there is also, as people have pointed out, extra punishment for people who live in a rural area, ( as I do) where some days there are no buses at all, with the nearest shop over 2 miles away. I remember being at a meeting at The Home Office a few years ago where they were discussing drink driving. The senior Civil Servant present said; "Well drink drivers just have to use public transport." I challenged this and was told that it was fine because the underground runs until 1am. I had to point out the reality of life for those who live outside the Metropolis.......
should there be a shorter ban for people in rural areas? How would it be defined? Would every court have to be supplied with bus timetables to work out how severe the punishment would be for that individual?
I feel that the current system is flexible enough, but there will always be more hardship for some than others. As to prison being mandatory, there are some single unemployed people for whom prison might be a breeze, whereas for a working single parent it would be devastating to lose your job and see your children go into care.
one other thought, if people went to jail instead of a ban, the offence would have to carry points as well. Many people could find that with "totting up" they will be at 12 points so face a 6 month ban as well.
 
I think what would be fair is if there was a mandatory ban which the magistrates have to stick to. I found it completely wrong that when I went on my drink driving course that someone who had a much higher reading than I did got 4 months less ban than myself because she was a carer for her Father and yet I am a single parent with three children, sole carer for them and living in a remote area, I also paid for a solicitor to attend court and put my circumstances forward, in hind sight that was the biggest waste of money ever. I've had my licence back since July but I still come on here to read people's stories and I think it's completely wrong that it seems some get off with lighter than others.

I think you put forward a valid point however, we have no details of either your case or the other persons case to compare. We also dont know for sure if her lighter sentence was indeed because of her status as a carer or for other reasons. No offence but there may have been aggravating factors you may not have even been aware of in your case but not hers.

Rightly or wrongly there will always be the human element of how the Magistrate(s) feel on the day, whether they believe someone is truly remorseful etc which will also determine a sentence.

As each and every individual case is different it is difficult to say with certainty whether someones sentence is in reality actually harsher than another. There are so many factors taken into consideration when sentencing, its not only about the level of alcohol.
 
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