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Thread: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

  1. #11
    strontium90 is offline Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    They say you learn something new everyday..
    Still no word about my impending medical....
    Just back from a shopping trip in Belfast with my daughter and bumped into a guy on the street who was one day older than me at school...
    Got talking and I said I was off the booze...it transpires so was he and had only got his license back after a brush with the law....told him my situation and he told me the DVLNI medical takes place in Ward 15, Downpatrick with consultant psychologist Dr Flanagan (who I am a patient of and received treatment at aforementioned ward)...

    This surely is unethical to say the least, breaks Doctor/Patient confidentiality as she is treating my with her NHS hat, while working for the DVLNI with her other and if she is performing the medical. will surely face a conflict of interests or some breach of her ethical code?

    Can I object to her performing the medical as she won't be impartial (I'm her patient)..

    It's like going for a job medical and your own Dr is working for the company your applying for a job with while knowing everything you've told them confidentially...feel like kicking up a stink about this as it's clearly unfair...

    Any advice please?


  2. #12
    Moodle is offline Established Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by strontium90 View Post
    They say you learn something new everyday..
    Still no word about my impending medical....
    Just back from a shopping trip in Belfast with my daughter and bumped into a guy on the street who was one day older than me at school...
    Got talking and I said I was off the booze...it transpires so was he and had only got his license back after a brush with the law....told him my situation and he told me the DVLNI medical takes place in Ward 15, Downpatrick with consultant psychologist Dr Flanagan (who I am a patient of and received treatment at aforementioned ward)...

    This surely is unethical to say the least, breaks Doctor/Patient confidentiality as she is treating my with her NHS hat, while working for the DVLNI with her other and if she is performing the medical. will surely face a conflict of interests or some breach of her ethical code?

    Can I object to her performing the medical as she won't be impartial (I'm her patient)..

    It's like going for a job medical and your own Dr is working for the company your applying for a job with while knowing everything you've told them confidentially...feel like kicking up a stink about this as it's clearly unfair...

    Any advice please?
    I see what you are saying here, could you ring them and explain that and se what they think or instead of that try and contact your consultant and see what she has to say?

    How bizarre and utterly frustrating for you.

    Moodle

  3. #13
    strontium90 is offline Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    Thanks for the reply Moodle...it's more than bizarre, it's downright disgusting...it's poacher turned gamekeeper...how can I trust this consultant now?

    At the medical will I ask "are you working in your capacity as my Dr or are you working as an employee of the DVLA?"

    I've researched the ethics hand book from the British Medical Association and their guidelines are as follows


    "General principles
    The following principles should inform doctors’
    actions with respect to confidentiality where they
    have dual obligations:
    • doctors acting for a third party must ensure that
    the patient understands that fact, and its
    implications
    • doctors have a duty of confidentiality, and
    information should not normally be disclosed without the patient’s knowledge and consent
    • doctors appointed and paid for by a third party
    still have a duty of care to the patient whom
    they advise, examine or treat, and must abide by
    professional guidelines on ethics and law."

    I have put in bold the relevant paragraph but it seems to me that this dual responsibility results in a conflict of interest and I would be within my rights to object to her carrying out the examination and possibly lodging a complaint with the GMC.



  4. #14
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    I think you are right about the possible conflict, but of course you would only be able to put in a complaint if the doctor went ahead with the medical despite the conflict. You cannot complain to the BMA about a conflict that COULD. Have happened.
    i think you should do what Moodle says and ring the DVLNI and point out the possible conflict. Unless you do, they will not be aware of the situation, and similarly Dr Flanagan might only realise who she is interviewing when you turn up and she recognises you. I am sure there must be more than one doctor who does the examinations on their behalf. This would then result in a further delay before you could get your licence back.
    i would also add (so long as the NI process is the same as in England) that there is nothing to stop the authorities from making enquiries with your own GP to clarify any matters that come up during the medical exam and questionnaire. Many people express surprise that the medical CANNOT be done by their own GP and it MUST be done by an approved DVLA doctor. If that is the case, then Dr Flanagan may end being asked what she thinks anyway, after the medical.

  5. #15
    Moodle is offline Established Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by price1367 View Post
    I think you are right about the possible conflict, but of course you would only be able to put in a complaint if the doctor went ahead with the medical despite the conflict. You cannot complain to the BMA about a conflict that COULD. Have happened.
    i think you should do what Moodle says and ring the DVLNI and point out the possible conflict. Unless you do, they will not be aware of the situation, and similarly Dr Flanagan might only realise who she is interviewing when you turn up and she recognises you. I am sure there must be more than one doctor who does the examinations on their behalf. This would then result in a further delay before you could get your licence back.
    i would also add (so long as the NI process is the same as in England) that there is nothing to stop the authorities from making enquiries with your own GP to clarify any matters that come up during the medical exam and questionnaire. Many people express surprise that the medical CANNOT be done by their own GP and it MUST be done by an approved DVLA doctor. If that is the case, then Dr Flanagan may end being asked what she thinks anyway, after the medical.
    I agree with Price here, & to be honest it isn't really the Consultant's fault it just seems a matter of bad luck that can hopefully be rectified. At the end of the day they look at a 3 year window for most areas so it is likely that you would be putting her name on the form if you are still seeing her and they might write for a report from her as well as your normal GP anyway if they are aware of you being in rehab last year....now at the end of the day too, you haven't drunk for almost a year so equally this shouldn't be an issue by the time they get reports because they would show you haven't been misusing nor dependent on alcohol for over a year by then so really it is all good from that prospective...

    Are you worried because you told the consultant you smoked dope?

    Personally I would ring the DVLNI and go from there....

    Clearly as you say your blood test would have a great result...so from where I am standing perhaps the worst scenario might be a licence for a year or whatever and at best you just get one to 70....

    Keep us posted...
    Moodle

  6. #16
    strontium90 is offline Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by price1367 View Post
    I think you are right about the possible conflict, but of course you would only be able to put in a complaint if the doctor went ahead with the medical despite the conflict. You cannot complain to the BMA about a conflict that COULD. Have happened.
    i think you should do what Moodle says and ring the DVLNI and point out the possible conflict. Unless you do, they will not be aware of the situation, and similarly Dr Flanagan might only realise who she is interviewing when you turn up and she recognises you. I am sure there must be more than one doctor who does the examinations on their behalf. This would then result in a further delay before you could get your licence back.
    i would also add (so long as the NI process is the same as in England) that there is nothing to stop the authorities from making enquiries with your own GP to clarify any matters that come up during the medical exam and questionnaire. Many people express surprise that the medical CANNOT be done by their own GP and it MUST be done by an approved DVLA doctor. If that is the case, then Dr Flanagan may end being asked what she thinks anyway, after the medical.
    Thanks for the reply...I can't do anything yet as I haven't received a letter to tell me where and when the medical is...however I'm pretty sure it will be Dr Flanagan...
    When I receive confirmation of the medical should I inform DVLNI I am a patient of Dr Flanagan and it wouldn't be appropriate for her to undertake the medical...

    However, when I last seen Dr Flanagan (in November) I told her I was putting in for my license and wanted to see if my blood would be ok (I was unaware she took the medical)..

    My blood was fine although she didn't mention she was an employee of DVLNI and whether the test here is LFT or CDT...

    She was, however, able to access my GP records at a punch of a key to check my bloods for the last year...so it kind of makes consent an irrelevancy and I feel she was less than honest as health care professional in not pointing this out as the BMA guidelines state

    • doctors acting for a third party must ensure that
    the patient understands that fact, and its

    implications
    • doctors have a duty of confidentiality, and
    information should not normally be disclosed without the patient’s knowledge and consent
    • doctors appointed and paid for by a third party
    still have a duty of care to the patient whom
    they advise, examine or treat, and must abide by
    professional guidelines on ethics and law."

    what is the point in her asking me to sign consent when in fact she has access to my GP notes as I'm her patient...in fact, I suspect she can see any patients notes from this area as it's all in the NHS South Eastern Trust....so it's disgusting and clearly wrong...

    It has totally eroded any trust I had with Dr Flanagan and will be doing something about this, even if it stalls my own license....I served my ban, got treatment for alcohol and am being punished for trying to help myself...it effing stinks!!!
    I am writing today for my GP to remove all online information as should everyone else in northern ireland


  7. #17
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    I think you are missing the point I was making. There has, to date, been no conflict of interest. When you spoke to her, you were here patient. She apparently is also employed by DVLNI, but at that time was not acting on their behalf. Now she has been asked to act on their behalf, and there would then be a conflict if she used information given in confidence as part of her assessment as the assessing doctor for your DVLNI medical. If this conflict is pointed out, or she realises when she sees you on her list for a medical for a third party and declines the job because of a conflict, then there has been no professional impropriety.
    however, if your system is like ours in England, when you apply for the medical you sign to say that you agree to any necessary enquiries being made to establish your fitness to drive. This includes contact with your GP or other relevant persons. I suppose you can reuse this consent, but then I believe that DVLA are likely to refuse your application as they are not in possession of all the facts......

  8. #18
    strontium90 is offline Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    Thanks for the replies guys..
    sorry price1367 but you are missing my point....she is already employed by DVLNI as she carried out my school mates medical...when I informed her I was putting in for my license, should she not have informed me it was likely to be her or one of her staff that carries out the medical...she even explained the readings on the LFT (which I would have passed before admission to her facility)...

    She is privy to a whole raft of personal information from me (stuff that not even my GP knows, but I told her as my consultant in an addiction facility) and it should be her duty not mine, to discharge herself from carrying out the medical, not mine....

    BTW...a number of other patients who were in there at the same time as me resumed driving immediately after their admissions (one of them a postman)....she didn't report them...it seems wholly unfair to me and she shouldn't be carrying out the medical...end off!!

  9. #19
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

    We are not disagreeing. The conflict comes about IF she did the medical. You do not know if she has agreed to do it, just the DVLNI have asked her to do it. So you cannot report her to the BMA now for being ASKED to do something. if you point out the conflict now to the authorities, you will get a quicker appointment when they agree and nominate another doctor than waiting until she sees your name on her list the day before, says there is a conflict and then declines the job. You would then have to wait for that to be relayed back and another doctor nominated in, perhaps, a months time or more. That means at least a months delay in you getting your licence back.
    I don't think you can extend the confidentiality angle to say that you therefore cannot be medically assessed for getting your licence back by ANY member of staff at that unit, , especially if that is the only unit where Northern Ireland medicals are carried out. That would mean that you could not be assessed and therefore could not drive ever again.
    i also don't think you can be sure about people driving after being discharged from the unit and that she did not report them. You would not know if she had reported them.... because of patient confidentiality.

  10. #20
    strontium90 is offline Member
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    Default Re: DVLNI Medical Northern Ireland

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    I agree Price, that I'm jumping the gun....I can't do anything until I officially receive notification of where and when the medical is and undertaken by whoever...I will wait until I receive something in writing...

    But....just suppose she receives word from DVLNI and remembers me (Northern Ireland is a small place and she WILL recognise my name and address as it's an unusual name for a town land) and is still going to carry out the medical, knowing full well in advance that I am one of her patients....would she be willingly and knowingly be carrying out a breach of patient confidentiality...hypothetically

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