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Thread: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

  1. #1
    Jo Smith is offline Member
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    Default BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    After typing a long detailed post and then timing out, very simply, what are the police trying to establish when requesting BAC calculations when using a hipflask defense?
    My understanding now having researched it, is the law assume the amount of alcohol in my system at the time of blowing on evidence machine at station, is what was in my system when driving. The burden is on me to prove otherwise.
    My version of events;
    8pm drove
    830pm minor rtc
    840pm home and consumed alcohol
    855pm police came to home, waited 30 mins, breath tested, failed, arrested.
    10pm booked in and on evidence machine blew 94/98
    Next morning interviewed, gave account, released under investigation...

    If for me to prove otherwise, why not just charge, rather than release under investigation pending BACs calcs?
    The solicitor said usually only use BACs in very server circumstance, so why request in this case?

    Are they helping to collaborate my events and simply looking to confirm amount of alcohol I say I had at 840pm is consistent with the sample provided, so if amount I say I drank at home wasn't enough to put me over, they'd take that amount off the 94 reading; so say if alcohol at home contained 45 then 94-45 = 49 so still over limit, or if amount said I had drank at home, doesn't fit, say a bottle of whiskey reading should of been 200 and I should be dead so not probable.

    Or are they trying to use BACs to disprove my version and looking at the timeframe and taking into account absorption and dispersion rates, if presumed, what I blew at station, is what was in system at time of driving? Are they looking to take off the time elapsed from evidence machine and last drink or is from last or first time drove ? Or are they looking at absorption rates to say, last drink at 830pm evidence machine at 10pm so on average, could of only of absorbed x amount which be taken off the 94 reading? Would they then also look to add on any dispersion rates?
    Finally do they take off 35 legal limit before charging eg blew 94 lowest on evidence machine, legal limit is 35 so 94 - 35 = 59 so sentencing be based on 59 guidelines rather than 94?


  2. #2
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    There is a bit missing. How much alcohol did you say you consumed after going home? And were there any witnesses to this? And were glasses / bottles shown to the police when they arrived?

  3. #3
    Jo Smith is offline Member
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    Default Re: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    Quote Originally Posted by price1367 View Post
    There is a bit missing. How much alcohol did you say you consumed after going home? And were there any witnesses to this? And were glasses / bottles shown to the police when they arrived?
    Thanks as always price, I was trying to get a general overview, rather than focus on the specifics and pass judgement here. I have raised previous posts, in relation to my specific circumstance, as you may recall, or not. General consensus was not plausible....

    As I say regardless of circumstance, I'm just trying to understand whether they're helping me by obtaining a BACs on my behalf or working against me and in what way, in general terms of hipflask defense where police are obtaining their own BACs, rather than leaving it to me to obtain, if they have no duty to help me prove my defense/case, in which case, how can I best prepare my defense, bear in mind no charges have been formally laid ... yet but coming close to that 6 month period, about 3 months left. They have so long to investigate I have a limited time to respond...

    If you recall I had 3l of white cider at 7.5% in the space of 15 mins with my child in the front room, I was in the kitchen, no witness, not proud. Empty bottle of said cider on kitchen side handed to police. putting aside the skepticism, what would the police use the BACS calculation for and if/when charges are laid, if I got my own BACs, would this cancel out theirs, as to me it appears to be down to data interpretation, I think it may come down to how you use that data and what calculations is used.

    Would/could they just be stringing me along? There was a phone call and the desk Srg informed me they were on phone to cps I'm now thinking whether they were discussing whether to charge or not, I wasn't privy to content or outcome, but after that I was then released under investigation and at the prior interview, my solicitor asked interviewer if they were doing BACs after the interviewer had muttered about it and the interviewer' answers wasn't convincing to me. The interviewer also didn't fully complete a paper questionnaire with me that I had to then sign, but did ask some relevant questions about what I had eaten, medication etc so not sure if that constitutes as verbal questionnaire, that was recorded, though I was vague in answers such as height and weight. .

    It's just horrible feeling, knowing innocent but having it hanging over me and if charged and subsequently found guilty, it means lose of job, so living in uncertainty, on tenterhooks and can't do anything until 7/8 months, which isn't until August away, even if don't hear anything by June, as I don't want to chase something that may be out of time limits, in event that they were going to charge.... I don't know just a loop going round and round may be just chase if charged, then just plead guilt so sooner conviction starts sooner it'll be over ... I'd be nearly 4 months in the sentencing by now...
    Thanking you...

  4. #4
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    CPS can be very pedantic with the police about what they require to see before authorising proceedings, they may have asked for extra statements that are causing the delay.
    I remember your case now, and the scepticism that was displayed about your claim to have drunk 3 litres in such a short period of time....
    Can I just check, are you male or female, because that would impact on what reading would result from your drinking.

  5. #5
    Jo Smith is offline Member
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    Default Re: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    Quote Originally Posted by price1367 View Post
    CPS can be very pedantic with the police about what they require to see before authorising proceedings, they may have asked for extra statements that are causing the delay.
    I remember your case now, and the scepticism that was displayed about your claim to have drunk 3 litres in such a short period of time....
    Can I just check, are you male or female, because that would impact on what reading would result from your drinking.
    I don't quiet understand what difference sex can have on BACs reading as surely the difference is accounted for anyway?

    Surely the % alcohol be same for both sexes? ie bottle of whiskey contains 200 units, if woman drank it and same time passed as for male who had drank same, the reading surely be the same as 200? ie max threshold, Or is it the time frame that differs? so both sexes drink same amount at same time but shows up in us women quicker than in men? Again surely this difference is then accounted for ...or is it not....???
    I guess again depends on calculations and what you're trying to prove /disprove?

  6. #6
    price1367 is offline TTC Group Associate Director
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    Default Re: BACs calculation by police in hipflask defense

    Convicted Driver Insurance Quotes
    A reading of 91 in a man would be equivalent to 13 units of alcohol in your system. The same reading in a woman would be the equivalent of 7.5 units. That is why gender makes a difference and as you have said that you are a female (“us females”)
    as you say that you consumed 22.5 units in a very short period of time, it is even less credible for a woman that a man because of the low number of units that were in your body when you gave a breath test at the police station.
    say only half of it had absorbed into your blood stream and you were a man, that would show that 11 1/4 units had been added to your reading after you drove. But as a woman you only had 7.5 units in your system in total. This indicates that you did not drink a 3 litre bottle of 7.5% cider after you drove, or you should have had a reading, as a woman, of 180. Now that is making a general add up, it would vary with factors such as when you ate and your body size, but I cannot see, as an informed, but not qualified, person with drink drive knowledge, that your case stands up.
    i would have hoped that these issues would have been discussed with your solicitor, and if you do receive a summons then you will have to engage an expert in technical defences to prepare a report (cost about £300) to try to convince CPS of your case. If they do not accept that then you have to pay in the region of £800 for the expert to give evidence. CPS then produce their expert and if you lose costs are awarded against you, plus £625 prosecution costs. If proceedings are taken, it could prove expensive for you to plead not guilty.

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