In charge while unfit to drive through drink

Convicted Driver Insurance

jacob1582

New Member
in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a public place, namely a carpark/wastes ground whilst unfit todrive thrpugh drink contrary to section 4(2) of the road traffic act 1988 and schedule 2 to the road traffic offecnders act 1988.....-CCCJS CODE: RT88347

person met a friend decided to park in a private secured car park and have some drinks after a few drinks person started to feel cold due to headache not normally a drinker switched the car on for the heating and got comfortable and fell asleep - police swarmed in arrested the person on drunk in charge -
-car parked in a bay - wall in front wall on the side behind car logs of wood - two accesses to the car park one locked gate other access to the car park was blocked by skips with only a small gap and could only be accessed entering a similar car park which was unlocked next to this car park - no intention of driving lived 10 minutes away friend lived 2 minutes away car was fully safe in a locked car park - at station breathalysed hit 42 and 43 - court session soon
 
With an allegation of being drunk in charge of a vehicle, if you can demonstrate to the Court that there was no likelihood of you driving the vehicle whilst over the legal limit, then this is a full defence. It would be helpful to obtain evidence from your friend if he feels able to comment on the situation. You should be aware that the key test is the likelihood of you driving, rather than whether you had any intent to do so (although this is of course relevant). As such your breath reading will be particularly relevant. A low breath reading means that you would have been below the legal limit a short time later, you therefore only have to demonstrate that you would have not driven in that time.

If you plead guilty or are convicted of the offence then the Magistrates sentencing guidelines advise the imposition of a band B fine and 10 penalty points. If you have any points on your licence at present then this will cause you to fall foul of the totting up procedure and as such the Court would be looking at a 6 month disqualification, unless you can demonstrate that this would cause you exceptional hardship.

If you are interested in representation for this matter you are welcome to contact my department on 0333 999 7158.
 
person has been bailed to appear at magistrates - when will the evidence be required from friend (at this session or another) and exactly what evidence can be obtained from friend ie.letter or attendance in court - what will the testimony of friend be? for example if friend wrote a letter to confirm he lived close by and were going to walk from the parked car to his house to play playstation - and the fact that friend was looking after person/waiting who was sleeping to sober up

Also

Is the fact that the car park was private and belonged to a company with no reasonable access to the public ie. locked gates does not lead to a street/or can be used as a shortcut it is strictly a car park with bays and reinforced steel gates which can only be accessed by walking through unlocked gates
 
If you are pleading not guilty then the information needs to be focused on the fact that there was no likelihood of you driving. Therefore if you had spoken to your friend about where you were planning on travelling to that evening, they can give evidence to this effect. If your friend is going to be a witness in the case then he will almost certainly be required to attend Court for the trial to give evidence.

Similarly if the car park was completely sealed and it was impossible to drive the car out, then this would be useful to put forward in evidence as if you could not have left the car park by driving then there is little chance that you would decide to drive the vehicle.
 
The problem is friend is flying off to holiday for 2 months and the first appearance at maj is on the 17/6/16 (therefore when will the trial take place? is there a backlog built up on these cases or will trial simply happen ASAP) - depending on trial date friend might not be in country

Person will be pleading not guilty - already has 6 points - and is in fact NOT guilty - do not want to waste a penny therefore defending myself

Does person need to put forward skeleton arguments to prosecution for private car park if so what would that consist of - to get prosecution to drop case

at station test 43 - reading up on the matter i was meant to be offered a blood or urine test?

How get prosecution to drop case - as it is very trivial breathalysed at 43 - parked securely no seat belt head was in lap fully asleep - officer dragged out car and said "why you dragging your feet" shows i was incapable of moving

How do prove that 43 would drop below legal limit? would provide expert medical report or will a google search for facts how quick breath alcohol drop - be considered strong enough

Plan on taking a whole host of paperwork (images of car park showing it is private - the location car was parked (in corner in bay) - letter from car park company to show it was private - reports on where my friend and i lived (google map printouts)

What is your opinion? how would you defend?

If after defending and found guilty will still be able to provide mitigating circumstance to avoid ban etc...
 
If your friend is not going to be in the country then you can explain this to the Magistrates and ask that any trial date is only listed when he will be available to attend. I would therefore advise having a note of his travel dates with you at the hearing in June.

The prosecution are highly unlikely to drop the case against you in the present circumstances. When raising a defence that there was no likelihood of you driving the vehicle, the onus is on you to prove that this was the case. You must convince the Court on the balance of probabilities (i.e. a 51% chance or greater) that you would not have driven the vehicle whilst over the limit. In this scenario the prosecution are unlikely to drop the case unless they believe that it is a virtual certainty that you will be found not guilty. Skeleton arguments are not required in the Magistrates Court. Sometimes the Court will order a defence case statement to be served setting out the basis of your defence, the Court will provide further information on this if it is required.

I'm afraid that the police are no longer required to offer the option of a blood or urine specimen if your breath reading is 50 or lower. This requirement was removed in April 2015.

Information from an online source will not be accepted as an accurate assessment as to when you would have been below the legal limit. If you are approaching an expert you would need to speak to a forensic toxicologist to obtain the report.

I'm afraid that I cannot advise you how to approach your defence at Court. I am not in possession of any prosecution papers, nor have I seen any of the evidence on which you will be relying. If I was to advise in the absence of this then there is a risk that I would misadvise and harm, rather than assist your case.

If you are convicted you can still certainly present mitigation to the Court to try and avoid them disqualifying you under the totting up provisions.
 
1} Do i need his travel booking/iteniary or will the maj be understanding - considering he will be on holiday from end june till end sep 2016 - on the back of this how do i bring a witness to the trial is there paperwork to fill out (if so when on first hearing) or simply wander in on the day

2) defence case statement - will this outline the defences and who will it go to im guessing prosecution (ie it was a private car park you have no case BYE) - on the back of this how do i commuincate with prosecution ie talk to them face to face letters or dont bother

3) forensic toxicologist to obtain the report. - two words i have never heard of before where do i find these geeks and how warm do i need to make there wallets

4) baby steps i will give you main points of my interview and you can shoot wholes through them or not - i mentioned the following

""" I lived 10 minutes away I could have walked and friend lived 2 minutes away car was fully safe in a locked car park – EXACTLY MY STATEMENT – I used the word I could have walked home or went to my friends - I did not state my exact PLANS ie I WAS GOING TO MY FRIENDS – can bring this up in court or is it too late
 
I would advise bringing your friends flight confirmation for the dates he travels out and comes back. You will also need your friend's details, address, date of birth and full name.

The defence case statement varies based upon the information and evidence provided. I would not start worrying about this unless the Court state that they would like one to be served, which is relatively rare in the Magistrates Court.

I would advise searching online. Different firms charge different amounts, although it is not usually in excess of £300.

If your plans were to walk to your friends house then you can of course present this to the Court. The prosecution may try to make an issue of the fact that you simply said that you could walk to your friends, but this will only become apparent when the prosecution provide more evidence.
 
1) Me and my friend both do not want any correspondence to go to our home addresses ie. court papers letter due to the repuatational impact of the content - how do we get all post redirected

2) you have mentioned the prosecutions evidence numerours times - When will the prosecutions evidence be available do i have to make a request?

3) with regards to my interview at the police station after my arrest do i need to request a copy of this from the police and how will they provide through post?

4} just so i am ready for my first hearing at maj: I plan to take references for myself, drivers license, friends flight info and details ie address do i need any further documents evidence etc or is this just the initial stage - do you know how long this will last? time wise.....do i meet prosecution on the day? will they approach me?
 
You can ask for the Court to send information to an alternate address, however they may state that all correspondence has to go to your home address.

The prosecution will serve the initial disclosure at the first hearing. At this time you can request any further evidence that you believe will be helpful to your case, e.g. statements from certain officers, the MGDD/A form etc. you can also request a copy of your interview at this time. Typically this will be put onto a disc and sent out.

I'm afraid that I cannot give a time estimate as this will depend upon how quickly your case is called on. The prosecution will not seek you out, however if you ask at the Court desk they should be able to point the prosecutor out to you and you can then discuss the case with them. If you are pleading not guilty you should not need any other documents that those mentioned.
 
How much worse will the sentence or fine be if i am found guilty at trial - this strategy buys me a few more weeks with my lisence?

after all if found guilty one way or another i will lose my license as i am within my first two years of driving so points or disqualified i will lose my lisence?

not to mention i already have 6 points (my lisence was revoked previously then i retook my test last october got a new lisence oct 2015 am i right in thinking if points are given i lose my lisence anyway i exceed totting up 16 points - so my question is do i take a 12month ban or 10 points - which is up to the judge i know but if i dont provide mitigating circumstances then i deem the 12m disqualification? which method is the best so to speak?

(what would be the best guilty plea strategy ie, reference, statement of mitigation, and a show of remorse to the maj? )

to help my self i plan to take a character reference from a work colleague...will a simple reference about me suffice? does it have to be on company letter headed paper? how official does it have to look because a ref from a friend could be anything?

with regards to seeking out and speaking to the prosecution why would they be interested to speak with me or me them? Can i strike a deal with them like in american movies :D - why would i speak to them? what would i tell them (ie. i plan to crush you as i have a very good witness who will say i was going to his house OR your wasting your time? not the best two sentences but if you could give me wisdom from your experience)

Will the prosecution try to trick me if i do speak to them in some twisted lawful way like the police do?

One fact of the case is that my car was parked off road in a company private car park - now the public would have access if they jumped over the locked gates or walk through a pile of waste - when will i present this information.... in trial? - before trial to the prosecution? - to the maj at the first hearing? OR is this fact completely irrelevant and a waste of time to even present?
 
For your breath reading the sentencing guidelines only advise the imposition of 10 penalty points, not a disqualification for the offence itself. However as you have 6 penalty points on your licence you would fall foul of the totting up procedure and the Court would impose a 6 month disqualification, unless you can demonstrate that this would cause exceptional hardship. The fact that you are in the first 2 years of passing your test is now irrelevant as you can only have your licence revoked once under the new driver provisions, which has already happened.

The prosecution won't be striking a deal or discontinuing the case, however if you are pleading not guilty then you can ask them for a copy of the evidence they have to date so that you can review this before the hearing. You can also put them on notice so that they can obtain the availability of their witnesses as presumably they will be required to attend the trial. This will make the hearing move ahead more smoothly and reduce the time you have to spend in the Court room dealing with the case. The actual facts of the case will only be presented to the Court at trial, although you will have to explain the basis of your defence (e.g. you were not going to drive the vehicle whilst over the limit).

If you plead guilty then you would receive a 33% reduction in the fine imposed by the Court. Any penalty points or disqualification will be unaffected by your plea as these are classed as ancillary orders.

If you are going to plead guilty then you need as much information as you can to explain what the impact of the penalty points/disqualification will be. For example if you will lose your job I advise obtaining a reference from a manager at work confirming this. If it will impact on your family then a reference fro a family member explaining this would be helpful.
 
IF FOUND GUILTY AT TRIAL because i hit 43 breath/alky = According to you I am getting 10points NOT 12 months ban? Thats the best news i have heard since this tragedy started

BUT To avoid 6 month disqualification (which is what i am up against with a 43 breath alcohol level) = my dad writes that I regularly take him to the hospital and pharmacy for meds and it would be hectic to try and book a taxi or get a ride in unexpected circumstances - then thats exceptional hardship (or does he need to elaborate ie: he has chest pains and so forth - will they think im lying im sure every punter will say that to avoid getting disqualified its a no brainer? - if i got that written on a4 paper printed is that enough - do i need further proof ie bring my dad himself - bring my dads medical papers - prescriptions - what im getting at, is how strong is my word to the maj or will they think im scum and i deserve whats coming for sleeping in my car drunk its the most bizzare crime you should have seen the arrest they had like 6 officers and 3 police cars (what a waste of tax money) and i woke up to handcuffs i pinched myself to make sure it wasnt a nightmare :D

how do i put the prosecution on notice? what does this even mean? when do i put the prosecution on notice at the first hearing? (forgive me if i sound repetitive only my life is on the line)

can you give me a breakdown of the stages or indicate if i am along the right lines - so first my hearing on 17th I plead not guilty - then trial set date where a decision is reached - is there any more what about the in between - when do i bring mitiagtion letter, my references etc (again forgive me)

a 33% reduction in fine for a band b or band a fine - is like £200 (weekly net profit £600 x 33% = £200ish) so according to you if i took trial fought my case and lost i only risk an extra £200ish (go along with my calcs) is this correct or do i pay additional monies for wasting court time ie standard legal costs for bringing it to trial making those poor policemen and prosecution come into court and wasting their precious time hearing me nag about how inncoent i am IM SURE THATS GOTTA BE WORTH SOMETHING standard court fees £75 or sumink? just to bring to attend like its a football match - can you shed more light on cost from what your telling me it doesnt make a big big difference to take the court to trial
 
I'm afraid that stating it is hectic for your father to book a taxi to go and get his prescription would not amount to exceptional hardship. Similarly if he was suffering from chest pains that make it necessary for him to attend hospital they would advise him to contact an ambulance at this stage. Typically an exceptional hardship plea is focused around issues with employment and then subsequent financial issues that arise. For example a taxi driver who is the sole source of income for his wife and two children. If they are disqualified then they would likely lose their home as they could not continue paying the mortgage. The Court are aware that hardship will follow any disqualification, it has to be far outside the norm for exceptional hardship to be found.

Putting them on notice simply means making them aware that you are pleading not guilty. This means that they can contact witnesses ahead of the hearing and obtain availability so that the trial will be listed when everyone is available to attend.

If you plead not guilty then the case will be re-listed for trial. During the interim the prosecution are likely to be serving further evidence, you are also able to do this should you wish to. Any references etc should only be brought to the trial hearing, unless you are pleading guilty in which case you would need them for the first appearance.

The prosecution will request increased costs if the case goes to trial and you are convicted. However these costs will be dependant upon the amount of work carried out by the prosecution.
 
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