Half Life Clarification CDT

Convicted Driver Insurance

white43

Member
I've seen a few people bandying around 'Half Life' in some of their replies. I understand what it means, but I think some of the responses given here are misinterpreting what it means, or not fully understanding it.

A half life is the time it takes for for a specified property to reach half it's original value.

It does not mean that it's reached half it's active life.

So, when you read in many scholarly articles that CDT has a half life of 14 days, it means that's the time it should take to reach half it's starting value. For example, someone has a CDT value of 3%, after 14 days, that should reach 1.5%. Likewise, someone with CDT of 4% will hit 2% in two weeks.

Half life only halves the next value. So in the first two weeks, 3.0% becomes 1.5%, but after two more weeks, it's half 1.5%, so 0.75%.

*This is theoretical and of course, there will be variances on all sorts of things like weight, sex, medications etc etc. Some put the half life of CDT at closer to 17 days.

The CDT blood test does not test 'half life' of CDT, because half life is the time it takes for CDT to halve it's value.
Half life doesn't mean that it's reached half it's active life and will only start to drop off after that.

This is why CDT only reflects (heavy and persistent)drinking that has taken place in the last 2-4 weeks and many articles point to CDT clearing in as little as 1-2 months.

It's all here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life
 
I've seen a few people bandying around 'Half Life' in some of their replies. I understand what it means, but I think some of the responses given here are misinterpreting what it means, or not fully understanding it.

A half life is the time it takes for for a specified property to reach half it's original value.

It does not mean that it's reached half it's active life.

So, when you read in many scholarly articles that CDT has a half life of 14 days, it means that's the time it should take to reach half it's starting value. For example, someone has a CDT value of 3%, after 14 days, that should reach 1.5%. Likewise, someone with CDT of 4% will hit 2% in two weeks.

Half life only halves the next value. So in the first two weeks, 3.0% becomes 1.5%, but after two more weeks, it's half 1.5%, so 0.75%.

*This is theoretical and of course, there will be variances on all sorts of things like weight, sex, medications etc etc. Some put the half life of CDT at closer to 17 days.

The CDT blood test does not test 'half life' of CDT, because half life is the time it takes for CDT to halve it's value.
Half life doesn't mean that it's reached half it's active life and will only start to drop off after that.

This is why CDT only reflects (heavy and persistent)drinking that has taken place in the last 2-4 weeks and many articles point to CDT clearing in as little as 1-2 months.

It's all here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life


Interesting points.

So essentially your CDT level divides in half every 14 days?

What I have noticed in various literature is that CDT levels will spike only after a sustained period of drinking. The professionals seem to have a slightly varying opinion on timescales here. They vary from 5 to 14 days of sustained drinking. By sustained drinking they suggest 60g on a daily basis over any period between 5 to 14 days. Again there seems to be a large discrepancy between the considered periods.

There is also suggestions that a CDT test is poor at identifying binge drinking patterns; probably due to the reasons White has described above. So if a person hammers the booze on a Saturday night every week, and drinks nothing else in between; then that person's CDT levels should not spike. They should in theory pass the CDT test percentage of 1.8% or less.

This could explain why so many people have passed the medical after abstaining for only 4 weeks. The reality could be that their CDT levels were never high; as they had not been drinking everyday for prolonged periods.

This still presents a danger to those who have recently been on a drinking holiday; or for those who have just come through the Christmas period. Either of these situations could easily spike your CDT levels.


There seems to be a lot of grey area to all of this.

M
 
Interesting points.

So essentially your CDT level divides in half every 14 days?

Yes, half life works the same in every drug the same way. Even alcohol itself. I would factor in things like weight, sex, medications etc, but essentially, the half life of CDT is 14-17 days. So in 14 days the current value of CDT should half itself.

What I have noticed in various literature is that CDT levels will spike only after a sustained period of drinking. The professionals seem to have a slightly varying opinion on timescales here. They vary from 5 to 14 days of sustained drinking. By sustained drinking they suggest 60g on a daily basis over any period between 5 to 14 days. Again there seems to be a large discrepancy between the considered periods.

There is also suggestions that a CDT test is poor at identifying binge drinking patterns; probably due to the reasons White has described above. So if a person hammers the booze on a Saturday night every week, and drinks nothing else in between; then that person's CDT levels should not spike. They should in theory pass the CDT test percentage of 1.8% or less.

Because of the relative small half life of CDT, it will only show up after sustained heavy drinking for at least a week. Remember that if you stopped after that, two weeks later, it will have halved.

Here's a great example:

http://www.forum.drinkdriving.org/general-discussion/75501.htm

User reports that they were 1.7%, had a binge and some 3-4 days later are 2.4%! Well, of course they are! Factoring in her small frame and size (and females tend to have higher CDT levels), this would have pushed the CDT level right up. However, if she'd waited 14 days for that second private CDT test, she would have likely seen that come back down to 1.7 or even 1.2%. This person reported that they had a 1.7% after four weeks of abstinence and she was a regular heavy drinker. We can surmise her starting reading could have been 6.8%! After two weeks, 3.4% and after two more weeks 1.7%.

Interestingly enough, weekend binge drinking will likely increase CDT between 1.5-3%, but fortnightly will not, because of the half life of 14 days. In weekend drinking, the half life is still 7 days off, so increases will occur.

This could explain why so many people have passed the medical after abstaining for only 4 weeks. The reality could be that their CDT levels were never high; as they had not been drinking everyday for prolonged periods.

This still presents a danger to those who have recently been on a drinking holiday; or for those who have just come through the Christmas period. Either of these situations could easily spike your CDT levels.


There seems to be a lot of grey area to all of this.

M

Read this report : http://www.viapath.co.uk/sites/default/files/upload/BloodSciences/cdt report2.pdf

This really nicely sums it up. Transferrin only remains in circulation for 7-14 days.

"Transferrin remains in the circulation for 7 to 14 days and CDT, therefore, can give an indication of alcohol consumption over this period of time, which gives it an advantage over blood or urine alcohol measurements which only remain elevated for 24-48 hours after alcohol consumption."


I would go so far as to suggest that it doesn't matter what you were drinking several months ago or even two months ago(or even how much!). Transferrin only remains as a biomarker for 7 to 14 days!!! That means it will only show up heavy and persistent drinking over the last few weeks. This reminds me of the HbA1c test for diabetics. This reflects blood glucose levels for the last 12 weeks. It doesn't matter that you may have spent 9 months eating a ton of sugar. If in the last 3 months you ate none, that previous 9 months will not show up. (HbA1c has a longer half life than CDT, so the 12 weeks here is for blood glucose indication only).

This report: https://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/alcalc/31/3/257.full.pdf

"In the 65 patients from whom blood samples were obtained on all testing occasions, the mean %CDT results declined from a starting value of 6.03% on day 0 to values of 5.16, 3.14, 2.19,1.80 and 1.56 on days 2, 7, 14, 21 and 28 respectively after admission."

Day 0 6.03%
Day 2 5.16%
Day 7 3.14%
Day 14 2.19%
Day 21 1.80%
Day 28 1.56%

As you can see from those results, CDT comes down fairly quickly and a CDT level of around 6% would indicate consumption of around 400g+ a day!!!(I can personally tell you that 2 x bottles of wine and 2 x 500ml bottles of cider is about 170g - 24 units). Those results aren't very consistent with a half life of 14 days, but this report also seems to indicate, the higher the CDT, the quicker it falls. The lower only goes down slightly. In terms of DVLA, this reached safe levels in 14 days.

Heavy and persistent drinking over long periods of time take the toll on the liver. This definitely shows up in testing and requires far longer - like 3 months to clear up and I personally think this is where the confusion is setting in. I think some GPs and certainly some alcohol awareness courses(mine for example) do not know enough about CDT(or even seem to know about CDT) and are presenting previous clearance times based on LFT (liver function tests).

Of course, none of this explains why I got a 0.9% reading after weeks of heavy drinking. I'll be testing again in 2 weeks, so we'll see.
 
Hi all, im new here but need a bit of advice. Ive read and researched google etc, but I'd rather have peoples own experience as a guide.

Well, im in my 40's, male & was sober for 4 months solid. Had my liver function tests at the docs as I presumed that's what the DVLA required.
All the results came back normal, GGT was 49 the rest I cant remember but all was fine.

Then, I went on holiday for 10 days (15/04/16) & drank heavy every day. I stopped drinking on 26/04/16. I have an appointment for a medical on June 2nd.

From experience, does anyone have an opinion on what my CDT will be?

Thanks in advance, Dave :)
 
Hi all, im new here but need a bit of advice. Ive read and researched google etc, but I'd rather have peoples own experience as a guide.

Well, im in my 40's, male & was sober for 4 months solid. Had my liver function tests at the docs as I presumed that's what the DVLA required.
All the results came back normal, GGT was 49 the rest I cant remember but all was fine.

Then, I went on holiday for 10 days (15/04/16) & drank heavy every day. I stopped drinking on 26/04/16. I have an appointment for a medical on June 2nd.

From experience, does anyone have an opinion on what my CDT will be?

Thanks in advance, Dave :)


If you drink for five days in a row then your CDT will elevate; you drank for ten days.

Half life only means a 50% reduction after 14 days of abstinence, however after that the rest of your CDT reduces on a slower basis which varies from person to person hence the rule of abstaining for periods of between 4 to 12 weeks.

You need four weeks abstinence as an absolute minimum.

If you have your medical on June 2nd then you should be okay based on what other people have been reporting here.

Your level needs to be under 2.2%.

M
 
Hi all, im new here but need a bit of advice. Ive read and researched google etc, but I'd rather have peoples own experience as a guide.

Well, im in my 40's, male & was sober for 4 months solid. Had my liver function tests at the docs as I presumed that's what the DVLA required.
All the results came back normal, GGT was 49 the rest I cant remember but all was fine.

Then, I went on holiday for 10 days (15/04/16) & drank heavy every day. I stopped drinking on 26/04/16. I have an appointment for a medical on June 2nd.

From experience, does anyone have an opinion on what my CDT will be?

Thanks in advance, Dave :)

Hi Dave.

As you're replying to this topic, here's what you should know.

If you abstain from drinking, after 14 days, you CDT (which is what is tested now) should half itself. This is scientifically proven.

Knowing what it was to start with, can be a dilemma.

You abstained for four months. Easily gets the CDT level to normal.
You drank heavily for 11 days.
This will elevate the CDT level as the biomarker shows two weeks of heavy drinking. I have no idea what this would put YOU up to.

But, abstinence will bring the marker down. 14 days will half the marker. (the half life of CDT).

A further 14 days will half that existing marker again.

If you are concerned, I would suggest a private test. But 4-6 weeks should clear your CDT marker. But my word is not marker, not evidence.

Look at other threads about CDT and clearance periods.

Let us know.
 
Hi Dave.

As you're replying to this topic, here's what you should know.

If you abstain from drinking, after 14 days, you CDT (which is what is tested now) should half itself. This is scientifically proven.

Knowing what it was to start with, can be a dilemma.

You abstained for four months. Easily gets the CDT level to normal.
You drank heavily for 11 days.
This will elevate the CDT level as the biomarker shows two weeks of heavy drinking. I have no idea what this would put YOU up to.

But, abstinence will bring the marker down. 14 days will half the marker. (the half life of CDT).

A further 14 days will half that existing marker again.

If you are concerned, I would suggest a private test. But 4-6 weeks should clear your CDT marker. But my word is not marker, not evidence.

Look at other threads about CDT and clearance periods.

Let us know.
Thanks for the reply. I'm going to attend the appointment & I'll let you know how I get on. If my CDT isn't known in the first place & the DVLA have set parameters, it all seems a bit pointless unless they trick you into having two tests done so they then can compare the two results, unless of coarse the CDT level remains around 1.5% all the time? I'm presuming this is the case? Look forward to more replies & thanks again.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'm going to attend the appointment & I'll let you know how I get on. If my CDT isn't known in the first place & the DVLA have set parameters, it all seems a bit pointless unless they trick you into having two tests done so they then can compare the two results, unless of coarse the CDT level remains around 1.5% all the time? I'm presuming this is the case? Look forward to more replies & thanks again.

You need to make sure your CDT is below 2.2%

This indicates a green on the DVLA 'traffic light' system. However, a result of say 1.5% to 2.2% would indicate a level of drinking. This may have an adverse affect if in the medical questionnaire you indicate you do not drink at all and will probably a trigger a questionnaire to your GP.

Unless you are one of the few where CDT does not rise with consistent drinking, abstinence should create a level of 1% or below.

NOTE : You know that Liver function test is no longer used yes?
 
If you drink for five days in a row then your CDT will elevate; you drank for ten days.

Half life only means a 50% reduction after 14 days of abstinence, however after that the rest of your CDT reduces on a slower basis which varies from person to person hence the rule of abstaining for periods of between 4 to 12 weeks.

You need four weeks abstinence as an absolute minimum.

If you have your medical on June 2nd then you should be okay based on what other people have been reporting here.

Your level needs to be under 2.2%.

M
Thanks for the reply. I was thinking about asking for a CDT at my doctors, but I will have nearly 5 weeks under my belt until my test.

Hopefully that will be enough. Im sure delaying the appointments may raise a red flag at the DVLA?
 
You need to make sure your CDT is below 2.2%

This indicates a green on the DVLA 'traffic light' system. However, a result of say 1.5% to 2.2% would indicate a level of drinking. This may have an adverse affect if in the medical questionnaire you indicate you do not drink at all and will probably a trigger a questionnaire to your GP.

Unless you are one of the few where CDT does not rise with consistent drinking, abstinence should create a level of 1% or below.

NOTE : You know that Liver function test is no longer used yes?

Yes & thanks. My GP has already filled out the questionaire, then the DVLA are sending me for the medical etc. They are paying for it as my license was revoked because I told the truth about being in a private detox clinic last year sometime. Word of warning to anyone, don't mention your detox, your own doctor will not know if you wont allow records to be sent :) I made a mistake here & it cost me a year.

So I don't really know what if any more info they could glean from my GP? Interesting thought though.....
 
Hi adenough,

I have been reading your posts and wondered how you got on in your medical on 2nd June?

What was the result of your DDT test and did you get your license back (with or without restrictions).

Many thanks,

Louise.
 
Hi adenough,

I have been reading your posts and wondered how you got on in your medical on 2nd June?

What was the result of your DDT test and did you get your license back (with or without restrictions).

Many thanks,

Louise.
Hi & sorry for the delay, I cant log on on my ipad .....GRRRR :)

To start with, the date I gave for my medical was a lie (it was more recent) I did this because who knows who reads these things?
Anyway, I passed the medical, no urine test was taken, I think that's up to the Doctor?
My license came back valid for a year due to the fact id been in detox, not based on my normal CDT which was 1.07% (or summat like that).
My advice is don't tell them anything. Its their job to find out IMO, or lie. If your too honest you can shoot yourself right in the foot!
I stayed off the booze for 40 days. Major 11 day bender before then.

Again, sorry for the delay.....:)
 
Hi & sorry for the delay, I cant log on on my ipad .....GRRRR :)

To start with, the date I gave for my medical was a lie (it was more recent) I did this because who knows who reads these things?
Anyway, I passed the medical, no urine test was taken, I think that's up to the Doctor?
My license came back valid for a year due to the fact id been in detox, not based on my normal CDT which was 1.07% (or summat like that).
My advice is don't tell them anything. Its their job to find out IMO, or lie. If your too honest you can shoot yourself right in the foot!
I stayed off the booze for 40 days. Major 11 day bender before then.

Again, sorry for the delay.....:)

Your advice is very wrong and probably illegal. If you need to lie you shouldn't be driving! Buy a push bike and keep everyone else on the road safe!
 
Your advice is very wrong and probably illegal. If you need to lie you shouldn't be driving! Buy a push bike and keep everyone else on the road safe!
So your saying people who tell lies are unfit to drive? Well, that's everybody on the planet!

Why are you even reading a drink drive forum? Are you an offender too, or just a sad troll that's really bored with his own life that he feels it necessary to make absurd claims about the legality of my comment? Very, very strange.....Oh, feel free to sue me...PMSL
 
So your saying people who tell lies are unfit to drive? Well, that's everybody on the planet!

No I am not saying people who tell lies are unfit to drive. I thought I made it clear enough but I'll clarify for you. What I said was, if you need to lie on a medical form that determines whether you are fit to drive you probably are not so therefore should not be issued a licence until such a time that you can fill it in honestly. The DVLA has a responsibility to only issue a driving licence to those who will use it without causing harm to others. As a high risk offender you have proved otherwise so have lost your automatic right to have a licence before you satisfy them to the contrary.

Why are you even reading a drink drive forum? Are you an offender too, or just a sad troll that's really bored with his own life that he feels it necessary to make absurd claims about the legality of my comment? Very, very strange.....Oh, feel free to sue me...PMSL

Neither.

Your comment advised people to lie on their medical form. It is hardly absurd to point out to you how wrong that advice is.
 
No I am not saying people who tell lies are unfit to drive. I thought I made it clear enough but I'll clarify for you. What I said was, if you need to lie on a medical form that determines whether you are fit to drive you probably are not so therefore should not be issued a licence until such a time that you can fill it in honestly. The DVLA has a responsibility to only issue a driving licence to those who will use it without causing harm to others. As a high risk offender you have proved otherwise so have lost your automatic right to have a licence before you satisfy them to the contrary.



Neither.

Your comment advised people to lie on their medical form. It is hardly absurd to point out to you how wrong that advice is.

For your information, I got my license back because I surpassed the criteria required of me (or are you going to say that I didn't)?

Heres an example, MR.X has been in a detox facility for say 2 weeks. He hasn't touched a drop for nearly a year & has no need or intention to. He gets the questionnaire & answers all questions sincerely.

Mr Z is inexactly the same position, he decides that he doesn't understand the question about the private detox he attended as he paid for it himself and its not on his medical records because he chose quite legally not to mention it to his Doctor as he simply thinks its a private matter and wants to keep it that way.

Mr X automatically gets his license revoked for 12 months
Mr Z gets his license back, no problems at all.

So, whos the most danger to other road users here? Answers on a post card please.

One more thing, why are you reading drink drive forums & commenting when you have no experience on the subject ? I think this is odd behaviour, very odd. Have a think about that.........god knows what else your into.........?
 
I dont really have any interest in your 'example' or the circumstances of your drink driving offence nor your quizzing over why I am on an internet forum. Until you direct me to where this forum stats it is only for use by drink drivers then learn to share it as you do the roads with non-drink drivers.

Anyway, you are/were a high risk offender yet advocate lying to obtain that licence back. This is very wrong.

You also advise others to lie. This is very VERY wrong.

Before you judge me perhaps you should look at yourself, the high risk drink driving offender who advocates lying to obtain a driving licence. Not the best character reference is it?
 
For your information, I got my license back because I surpassed the criteria required of me (or are you going to say that I didn't)?

Heres an example, MR.X has been in a detox facility for say 2 weeks. He hasn't touched a drop for nearly a year & has no need or intention to. He gets the questionnaire & answers all questions sincerely.

Mr Z is inexactly the same position, he decides that he doesn't understand the question about the private detox he attended as he paid for it himself and its not on his medical records because he chose quite legally not to mention it to his Doctor as he simply thinks its a private matter and wants to keep it that way.

Mr X automatically gets his license revoked for 12 months
Mr Z gets his license back, no problems at all.

So, whos the most danger to other road users here? Answers on a post card please.

One more thing, why are you reading drink drive forums & commenting when you have no experience on the subject ? I think this is odd behaviour, very odd. Have a think about that.........god knows what else your into.........?



Hewl is is right to criticise you.
Your lies are wrong for 2 reasons.
Firstly you come on this forum and ask for advice on the basis of having a medical on 2nd June, and have people in good faith spend their time offering advice to you, whereas you now admit that the medical was some time later, so the advice offered was not tailored to your circumstances.

Secondly, it is an offence to make a false declaration to obtain your licence. The relevant part of the Road Traffic Act 1988 is shown below:

174 False statements and withholding material information.
(1)
A person who knowingly makes a false statement for the purpose—
(a)
of obtaining the grant of a licence under any Part of this Act to himself or any other person, or
(b)
of preventing the grant of any such licence, or
(c)
of procuring the imposition of a condition or limitation in relation to any such licence


is guilty of an offence.


Your scenario about Mr Z above is ridiculous. "he decides that he doesn't understand the question about the private detox he attended as he paid for it himself and its not on his medical records because he chose quite legally not to mention it to his Doctor as he simply thinks its a private matter and wants to keep it that way."

The questions on the DVLA form is quite clear:

Questionnaire to assess your medical fitness to driveIf you are unsure of the answers we advise you to discuss the form with your doctor
Please answer ALL questions and provide dates

WITHIN THE LAST 3 YEARS HAVE YOU:-Yes No
a) been dependent on or misused alcoholYes No
b) had an accident/injury, including a road traffic accident, as a result of youralcohol intake?Day Month YearIf YES, please give date(s)Yes No
c) had a problem with your home/ family or work life due to your alcoholintake?Yes No Day Month Year
d) undergone an alcohol detoxification programme?
e) had alcohol withdrawal symptoms?
f) had or have liver damage?
g) required hospital treatment for alcohol relatedillness?
h) been advised by a doctor or counsellor to reduceyour alcohol intake?
i) had memory loss after drinking



so unless Mr Z (or you) has a bad case of question i, it is clear he would have to answer "yes" to some or all of those questions. There is no mention of "But only if it was NHS, not private."

the form goes on to ask:

3a. How often do you have a drink containing alcohol?
b. How many units of alcohol do you drink on atypical day when you are drinking?


Notice, no mention of drinking at home, on holiday, in a public bar or a private club.... so Mr Z (and you) would have lied on the form to mislead DVLA.

At the bottom of the form is states:

Consent and Declaration
I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness to drive, to the Secretary of State’s medical adviser.
I authorise the Secretary of State to disclose such relevant medical information as may be necessary to the investigation of my fitness to drive, to Doctors, Orthoptists, Paramedical staff or Officers of the Secretary of State.
I declare that I have checked the details I have given on the enclosed questionnaire and that, to the best of my knowledge and belief they are correct.
“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to prosecution.”

Name:
Signature:
Date:

So you said to Hewl:

"For your information, I got my license back because I surpassed the criteria required of me (or are you going to say that I didn't)?2

I for one am going to say that you didn't 'surpass the criteria' because you lied to make it appear that you passed the criteria. DVLA were not in possession of the full circumstances to make a proper decision (like posters on here were when they tried to help you) and on the way, you committed an offence. There can still be action taken against you in the future if this should come to light.

 
t
I dont really have any interest in your 'example' or the circumstances of your drink driving offence nor your quizzing over why I am on an internet forum. Until you direct me to where this forum stats it is only for use by drink drivers then learn to share it as you do the roads with non-drink drivers.

Anyway, you are/were a high risk offender yet advocate lying to obtain that licence back. This is very wrong.

You also advise others to lie. This is very VERY wrong.

Before you judge me perhaps you should look at yourself, the high risk drink driving offender who advocates lying to obtain a driving licence. Not the best character reference is it?

OK, your not interested in my example because you don't like the answer as its clear that both men are equally safe to drive. You just couldn't bring yourself round to typing it.

'Anyway, you are/were a high risk offender yet advocate lying to obtain that licence back. This is very wrong'......

Here, you are very assuming ( narcissistic trait) that im referring to my license by using the word 'that'.
This you don't know, I was generalising to inform people who are in a slightly different position to , that sometimes, if you didn't 'understand the question' ,then that doesn't stand as a lie...read between the lines.

This one I love.....

'Before you judge me perhaps you should look at yourself, the high risk drink driving offender who advocates lying to obtain a driving licence. Not the best character reference is it?'

The only reason you come on here is to chastise people, so you've already judged them! This is the only logical reason why you would even show a slight bit of interest on a forum that you cant even relate to? Please ,please explain to me as to what 'draws' you in here, I'd love to know????
Don't skirt around this question as its very important to try and understand WHY you'd even bother!

I also love my character assaignation you tried to pull.......Ive been quite successful at doing that all on my own, I don't need your little dig, although it did make me giggle...........

Now, lets have a quick look at your 'character'......Pastimes..'I search internet forums where people who are like minded can give experiences first hand of the problems they are facing, or are just after a bit of friendly advise. My current favourite is a thread on a drink drive forum, but please, don't tar me with the same brush, I don't drink drive, NO,NO, that's for them losers I read about everyday'.......

Now, at least my conviction is black & white. Guilty all them years ago, but you,well, anyone who enters , reads & comments on a subject which bears no relevance to you or whats happening in your life, then the only question that can be asked is why? why do you do it? Will you please enlighten me because I find this type of behaviour very worrying. I mean, without an explanation from you, you gotta admit it is a tad odd!
 
Why are you getting so upset? You were simply told it was wrong to lie and worse to advise others to do so.

OK, your not interested in my example because you don't like the answer as its clear that both men are equally safe to drive. You just couldn't bring yourself round to typing it.

No, I really have no interest, I didn't even read it. The basic point I was making was to inform you that lying or advising people to lie is wrong. I have no interest at all in your trying to justify it.

'Anyway, you are/were a high risk offender yet advocate lying to obtain that licence back. This is very wrong'......

Here, you are very assuming ( narcissistic trait) that im referring to my license by using the word 'that'.
This you don't know, I was generalising to inform people who are in a slightly different position to , that sometimes, if you didn't 'understand the question' ,then that doesn't stand as a lie...read between the lines.

No need to read between the lines or assume. You said this:

My advice is don't tell them anything. Its their job to find out IMO, or lie. If your too honest you can shoot yourself right in the foot!

So what part of my sentence was wrong? Your attitude towards lying is appalling, especially if you wouldn't have got your licence back without telling the truth which would mean you have obtained it falsely and are not fit to be on the road. There are other people on the road you know!


The only reason you come on here is to chastise people, so you've already judged them! This is the only logical reason why you would even show a slight bit of interest on a forum that you cant even relate to? Please ,please explain to me as to what 'draws' you in here, I'd love to know????
Don't skirt around this question as its very important to try and understand WHY you'd even bother!

I didnt come on here to chastise you. You advised people to lie and I told you this was wrong. You should know what you said was wrong.

You appear to be the one who has got your knickers in a twist over it. This forum is open to all to comment and discuss. Perhaps you should have posted in the 'ask a solicitor' section rather than publicly if the opinions of others upset you so much.

Please show me where this forum is only open to offenders?? But to answer (as you seem obsessed by it), I am in the legal profession and have an interest in criminals.

Now, at least my conviction is black & white. Guilty all them years ago, but you,well, anyone who enters , reads & comments on a subject which bears no relevance to you or whats happening in your life, then the only question that can be asked is why? why do you do it? Will you please enlighten me because I find this type of behaviour very worrying. I mean, without an explanation from you, you gotta admit it is a tad odd!

As we all share the roads, your drink driving does bear relevance to me and everyone else!
 
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