The Law Has Changed..

Convicted Driver Insurance

true

Member
As from 10th March 2014, anyone with a criminal conviction will find that their probationary period will have reduced significantly, and become considered as 'spent' ie. never happened, or must not be considered by any employer or insurance company to disadvantage that person, so that the offense may never well have been committed. Fines are now considered spent after one year, as opposed to five years, so this needs not be disclosed to any employer or insurance company after this period, as it is, quite rightly considered 'spent' by UK law.

Now a lot of people do receive harsher sentences than just a fine for drink driving, such as suspended sentences and community service, these will also be considered spent sooner, so if in effect you were banned for 12 months on 11th March 2013, and also received a fine, this would from 11th March 2014 be considered spent, and you would be deemed fully rehabilitated. That is why previously insurance companies always asked if you had any offenses within 5 years.

By law, essentially, you do not have to inform them of this conviction as you are supposedly protected by this act as to be not treated any differently to someone who has no convictions.
this will be even further complicated in 2015 when paper counterpart driving licenses will be phased out, so there will be no physical endorsement stamped on any paperwork, which is usually endorsed for 11 years. Now, the DVLA will have a database that links to insurance companies, but will they inform insurance companies of spent convictions? In fact, once a conviction is spent, no person other than yourself or the Disclosure service for criminal records checks has the right to disclose this information to anyone else (unless you authorise them to) Will courts start giving out different punishments, in order for convicted drink drivers etc have a longer probationary period?

Clearly this is a bit of a confusing situation to be in currently... this law is very contradictory, either you are fully rehabilitated and your conviction considered 'spent' or you are not. Whilst I agree that people with offenses should pay higher premiums, I also think that once your conviction is spent and behind you, you should definitely not be penalised by insurance companies.

Anyone have any views on this?
 
Last edited:
true said:
As from 10th March 2014, anyone with a criminal conviction will find that their probationary period will have reduced significantly, and become considered as 'spent' ie. never happened, or must not be considered by any employer or insurance company to disadvantage that person, so that the offense may never well have been committed. Fines are now considered spent after one year, as opposed to five years, so this needs not be disclosed to any employer or insurance company after this period, as it is, quite rightly considered 'spent' by UK law.

Now a lot of people do receive harsher sentences than just a fine for drink driving, such as suspended sentences and community service, these will also be considered spent sooner, so if in effect you were banned for 12 months on 11th March 2013, and also received a fine, this would from 11th March 2014 be considered spent, and you would be deemed fully rehabilitated. That is why previously insurance companies always asked if you had any offenses within 5 years.

By law, essentially, you do not have to inform them of this conviction as you are supposedly protected by this act as to be not treated any differently to someone who has no convictions.
this will be even further complicated in 2015 when paper counterpart driving licenses will be phased out, so there will be no physical endorsement stamped on any paperwork, which is usually endorsed for 11 years. Now, the DVLA will have a database that links to insurance companies, but will they inform insurance companies of spent convictions? In fact, once a conviction is spent, no person other than yourself or the Disclosure service for criminal records checks has the right to disclose this information to anyone else (unless you authorise them to) Will courts start giving out different punishments, in order for convicted drink drivers etc have a longer probationary period?

Clearly this is a bit of a confusing situation to be in currently... this law is very contradictory, either you are fully rehabilitated and your conviction considered 'spent' or you are not. Whilst I agree that people with offenses should pay higher premiums, I also think that once your conviction is spent and behind you, you should definitely not be penalised by insurance companies.

Anyone have any views on this?
Click to expand...

I don't as I don't understand it lol! I was fined £145 had to attend probation every 6 weeks or so and do a drink course through them (that they later ended early as they felt it unnecessary with my rather blank drinks diary!) and ~I had a 6 month ban for being drunk in charge...back on the road now.. it didn't impact my insurance much at all. All I remember is probation asking me how I felt to now have a criminal conviction? I couldn't answer them as I hadn't even thought about it, I don't mean that in a flippant way I just honestly hadn't given it any thought. I notified my governing body who also gave no thought or bother to it either..perhaps it would have more impact if I decided to get an employed job. (I'm self employed)...

All seems a bit wishy washy to me, but then, most of these things are always hard to truly decipher.
Moodle
 
I wonder if this will have any future implications?
Let's say you get a 2 year disqualification. The law says your conviction is spent and you are rehabilitated after 12 months.
Wouldn't there be grounds to get your licence back 12 months after your conviction?

I'm due my licence back on the 18th of march this year. Will the DD be on it or not?
I'm quite excited now.
 
Europhil, Not quite as good as you are hoping...... But a big change to the 1974 legislation.
Convictions where there is a fine will be spent after 12 months. Convictions where there is a relevant order, which includes disqualifications, will become spent on the last day that the order has effect, in other words, when the ban expires. So in your case your conviction will become spent after 2 years, not one. (Unless you were sentenced to imprisonment)
The government have said that they will clarify the position on disqualifications, and points on a licence, before the date this comes into effect. Obviously this may cause a big problem for insurance companies. I can see there being a work round where points will still remain on a licence for 4 years, as now, although spent (there is a precedent for this of course with drink drive disqualifications which stay on your licence for 11 years) but as of 2015, insurance companies will have access to the DVLA database, so may see points anyway? (Still being clarified)
Will the access to the database be filtered to exclude spent points? I would have thought that they should be. Maybe in the meantime we will see many more insurance companies asking to see a copy of the counterpart licence, to see points for themselves, and adjusting premiums accordingly. Of course they could not take into account spent convictions, but does that mean they will,change from an 'instant quote' model to the "after we have seen your driving licence we will give you a quote" model...... But of course they would assure everyone that spent points would not be taken into consideration....
We should get clarification before 10th March, but whatever happens, the legislation is retrospective, so it does not just apply to convictions from that date, it applies to ALL past convictions.
It will not have any effect on current rules for DBS disclosures, and apparently will not apply to Immigration residency applications.
To answer your specific question, the drink drive conviction WILL be on your licence, because it will still remain on a persons licence for 11 years, but for disclosure purposes, for employment, it will be a spent conviction on the day your ban finishes. (Unless you went to prison, when it does not become spent until later)
This might seem odd, but at present it stays on for 11 years, but becomes a spent conviction after 5 years.
 
Last edited:
If an employer, Insurance company, or hire company contact DVLA at present (with your permission).
How does the system work with regard to disclosure? Let's say you've had your licence back for 6 years, So the conviction is spent yet remains on your licence for 11 years, Is the employer told about it?
I don't think they should be told as it is only supposed to remain on there for court purposes.
 
Currently disclosure is only for 5 years.
Of course your employer will have to see your driving licence, and a drink drive conviction will be there for them to see for 11 years.
 
What i mean is, What do DVLA tell them after 5 years. Let's assume you've "lost" the counterpart.
 
They tell them you have a full licence for classes x,y and z, and you have no disclosable points or disqualifications. They would say the same for someone who has never had points or disqualifications, so it does not identify you by default.
This should not satisfy a new employer though. If you have 'lost' your counterpart, they should insist that you obtain the counterpart and produce it to them.
These quick DVLA check are usually used by companies to do annual checks on employees to see that staff have not picked up points since being employed. My company does these checks for firms, 2 years ago we discovered a driver still driving a company car after his licence had been revoked by DVLA!
 
So come march 10th I won't have to declare anything (if I'm reading all this correctly)

I got a 17th month ban and fine in august 2012, back on the road since january.

I know a ban is considered spent as soon as the period is over but it's the fine that made things awkward, since over a year has passed since conviction I should be in the clear?

I start a new job tomorrow and they've not asked anything only do I have a licence.
 
As of March 10th, the fine will be a spent conviction. As of tomorrow, when you start employment, if they ask you to fill out a form stating you have / have not got convictions, then it is not a spent conviction, as the relevant length of time before it is spent at the moment is 5 years..... Until 10th March.
Don't forget, they should ask to see your licence if you are going to drive any company vehicles, or drive your own and receive a mileage allowance, and the disqualification will still be on there for 11 years from the date of conviction.
 
Thanks, that's what I thought. I don't think they'd care either way if they ask me, it was never bought up at the interview.
 
So just to clarify when it comes to renewing my insurance I no longer have to declare my conviction and when they ask have you had any convictions in the last 5 years I can say no without it invalidating my insurance.
 
The insurance bit is what is still to be clarified. The conviction will be spent, but what will be the status of the points? I feel sure they will still remain on your licence for 4 years, but between now and March 10, we will get clarification on what is happening about insurance and points / disqualifications. I will post on here as soon as the Government "pronounce" on how the new law should be interpreted..... Then stand by for Lawyers to challenge anything other than the points / disqualifications being spent after a year (in the case of fines) or the end of the order (in the case of disqualifications)", therefore non discloseable, even for insurance purposes.
 
europhil said:
I wonder if this will have any future implications?
Let's say you get a 2 year disqualification. The law says your conviction is spent and you are rehabilitated after 12 months.
Wouldn't there be grounds to get your licence back 12 months after your conviction?

I'm due my licence back on the 18th of march this year. Will the DD be on it or not?
I'm quite excited now.
Click to expand...

No, that hasn't changed essentially, because you received 2 separate punishments, the fine, and the disqualification. The fine would be considered spent after 12 months but the disqualification is a separate sentence and that would be spent once the disqualification had ended, so the longer of your two punishments is the rehabilitation period. Hope that helps.
 
price1367 said:
The insurance bit is what is still to be clarified. The conviction will be spent, but what will be the status of the points? I feel sure they will still remain on your licence for 4 years, but between now and March 10, we will get clarification on what is happening about insurance and points / disqualifications. I will post on here as soon as the Government "pronounce" on how the new law should be interpreted..... Then stand by for Lawyers to challenge anything other than the points / disqualifications being spent after a year (in the case of fines) or the end of the order (in the case of disqualifications)", therefore non discloseable, even for insurance purposes.
Click to expand...

Interesting point about the insurance companies. But technically, your license is only endorsed for future sentencing, so if you did it again within 10 years it would be visible to the police, DVLA and courts that you already have a DD conviction. In theory its already on their police computer but I assume its because people change names etc. Generally, you don't get given points for Drink Drive offenses, as you are already disqualified (Correct me if I am wrong on that one) your license is just endorsed with your conviction, and employers and insurance companies can only use this conviction to discriminate against while it is still unspent.

The original point I was trying to make is, you are either rehabilitated in the eyes of the law, or you are not. Insurance companies shouldn't be able to penalise people on this basis, they are bad enough as it is for whacking up premiums with any reason they can get away with.
 
price1367 said:
They tell them you have a full licence for classes x,y and z, and you have no disclosable points or disqualifications. They would say the same for someone who has never had points or disqualifications, so it does not identify you by default.
This should not satisfy a new employer though. If you have 'lost' your counterpart, they should insist that you obtain the counterpart and produce it to them.
These quick DVLA check are usually used by companies to do annual checks on employees to see that staff have not picked up points since being employed. My company does these checks for firms, 2 years ago we discovered a driver still driving a company car after his licence had been revoked by DVLA!
Click to expand...
Another valid point, but again, this is changing, as within the next year the government are planning to scrap paper counterpart licences, so you will not hold a physical paper that has been stamped with any points or convictions. In theory, the employers only have the DVLA enquiry situation, which if I am envisaging correctly, can only be a good thing, because if a conviction is spent, it is not disclosable to employers, so it would not be visible to them. (However I am aware that SOME driving jobs require ALL past convictions to be declared, however this is down to the applicant to take an advanced criminal records check) I could be wrong but if you drink drive do you get points, this I'm not sure on, but the courts punishment is the ban, I imagined, not the points, and they cant retrospectively give people points who have already been convicted, surely? Confusing stuff.
 
if you are convicted of drink driving and disqualified, they you are correct to say that the offence carried no points.
there can be occasions when you are convicted of a drink drive offence, but NOT disqualified. This includes being convicted of drunk in charge of a motor vehicle, where there is a discretional ban, and when special reasons are put forward to not disqualify. In both of these cases, the conviction would then carry points.
I agree that spent convictions cannot be disclosed, unless it is for an enhanced DBS (formerly CRB ) check for employment with vulnerable people and other specified occupations. Even then, if the conviction is an only one, does not involve imprisonment, and is not on the exempt list of offences, then it is non disclosable after 11 years.
i am awaiting with interest what will come out of what must be intense lobbying by insurance companies to try to find a way of highlighting the risk that individual motorists pose, as done under the current model. The only way I could see it working is by there being a way of separating out the points from the fine, and saying that they do not become spent after a year. As I read the new amendment though, it does not say that in any way at all, plus it already talks about relevant orders becoming spent at the end or the order, and that certainly includes disqualifications.
The downside is that if people with points and disqualifications can only have their premiums loaded for a year, then the rest of us will see our premiums rise to make up the shortfall.
i hope to speak to a senior person in the Insurance industry tomorrow to get his view on this.
I will keep people informed.
 
I assume the insurance industry are well aware of this, however keeping very quiet about it all. I know that people who have a drink drive conviction are 'allegedy' more likely to repeat offend which saddens me, I did it when 16 and would never do it now, Im now 31. However I feel the governments punishments are quite severe anyway, maybe they could change the sentencing guidelines, such as longer bans, etc. I truly believe advertising and awareness are a far better deterrent to drink driving than the actual punishments dished out anyway. Drink Driving has increased since the government cut public spending on awareness, maybe the insurance company should look into this side of it.
 
true said:
I assume the insurance industry are well aware of this, however keeping very quiet about it all. I know that people who have a drink drive conviction are 'allegedy' more likely to repeat offend which saddens me, I did it when 16 and would never do it now, Im now 31. However I feel the governments punishments are quite severe anyway, maybe they could change the sentencing guidelines, such as longer bans, etc. I truly believe advertising and awareness are a far better deterrent to drink driving than the actual punishments dished out anyway. Drink Driving has increased since the government cut public spending on awareness, maybe the insurance company should look into this side of it.
Click to expand...
Just over 2 years ago I was given a 3 year ban and because the reading was so high, a 6 week suspended for one year sentence instead of a fine, I have just completed a steer clear course so in theory I should get my license back at the end of April . I wondered if the suspended sentence would be considered like a custodial sentence?. If so am I right in thinking that both would be spent by the end of my ban?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Enter code DRINKDRIVING10 during checkout for 10% off
Top