Seeking advice

Convicted Driver Insurance

TheTaxMan

New Member
Hi

ive found this forum through google and im just seeking some general help/advice

Last month i fell out with my partner and she told me to get out and go sleep at my fathers house for the night.
i basicaly said no im too old to be going back to my dads house i will just sleep in my car.
i then drove to a area local to me where there are a couple of factories and its quite quiet with no housing etc, mainly for my own safety for through the night

i had some alcoholic drinks in my car (mixed brands)
i decided to stay the night to cool off (7pm) and drink these drinks that were in my car, i consumed quite a few of them and drifted off too sleep, i was then woken up at midnight by the police and breahalised etc, they told my my engine was running and i was slumped on the steering wheel, i do remember starting my engine to allow my battery to keep charged on my car whilst having the heating on etc

i blew 98 on the breathalyser and was charged with drunk whilst in charge of a vehicle
im due at court next week and cant afford a solicitor so im going to represent myself, i have pictures of the area i was planning on staying yhe night and some screenshots of a text message i sent to a friend explaining im sleeping in the car for the night, i dont know if i can print pictures off my phone and show them to the court?

i have a previous drink driving offence from 4/5 year ago and shortly after that a driving whilst banned

i just want a bit of advice on what punishment im to expect and what i could say in my defence

i didnt even no it was against the law to sleep in your vehicle and consume alcohol without intending or driving the vehicle
i have also pleaded guilty to the charge of being in charge whilst over the limit when i was asked my reply to the charge in police custody (there is no point in denying it and im hoping my early guilty plea may help)
i will also lose my job if i get banned as it entails driving

the police havent realy interrogated me to try and say i drove there drunk its a pretty simple of case of me being charged with being in charge only.

thanks for any help and advice i much appreciate it
 
You mention that you have a hearing coming up next week, but that you have already pleaded guilty to the charge. Please can you confirm whether this is the first hearing, and if so how you have entered the guilty plea.

I ask because from the information you have provided, you have the basis on which to enter a not guilty plea to the allegation of drunk in charge. If you can satisfy the Court that there was no likelihood of you driving the vehicle whilst still over the limit then this is a full defence. If any guilty plea has been entered in writing then you can withdraw this before the hearing and advise the Court of your reasons for doing so. If you have entered the plea in person and the case has been adjourned then it will be significantly more difficult as you will have to vacate your plea with the Court.

If you are looking to plead not guilty then you will almost certainly need expert evidence to say when your alcohol levels would have been below the legal limit. You would then have to demonstrate to the Court that there was no likelihood of you driving before this time. You should also be aware that with this defence the burden is on you to prove that you would not have driven.

If you are interested in representation then you are welcome to call my department on 0333 999 7158.
 
Hi, thank you very much for your reply

i havent been to court yet i go a week tomorrow for my first hearing at newcastle
magistrates

i only replied guilty when they asked my reply to the charge and bail at the police station

even if i prove i wasnt going to drive at all, am i still not in charge of the vehicle?

i was only planning on sleeping in the car over night to allow some air to clear between me and my partner, the next morning i would walk back home as its only 2 minutes walk from where i was parked/sleeping and pick the car up on monday evening (offence accured on sunday evening/night)
 
Also if i plead not guilty and need expert evidence, surely this will cost a fortune to obtain a professional to work this out and present it to the court? I cant afford a solicitor nevermind that

Do you think i should plead guilty and outline the facts that i wasnt going to drive at all i have pictures showing where i was parked out the way to cause no harm to myself or others, and txt messages stating im sleeping in my car for the night?

my partner is insured on my car and i was going to walk home the next day as i only live 2 minute walk away from where i was parked and let my partner collect my vehicle or pick it up myself after a home breathylser kit would deem me safe to do so.

i just really want to avoid a ban, il lose my job and my 11 month son is going to feel the effects of this, we have bills etc etc

the snag i see is my previous drink driving conviction and driving whilst banned 4/5 years ago

Do you think there is any chance i can get away with 10 points and possibly unpaid work and fines? (Ive completed 300 hours of unpaid work the last time i was banned)

thanks again for your advice
 
With a reading of 98 in breath it is still possible to only receive 10 penalty points for this offence. However this is in the third sentencing bracket, which makes it less likely, and when taking into consideration your 2 previous driving convictions the Court may well be minded to impose a disqualification.

If you plead guilty then you cannot tell the Court that you would not have driven the car. As mentioned previously, if you were not going to drive the vehicle whilst still over the limit then this is a full defence to drunk in charge. Therefore if you tried to plead guilty on this basis it would be viewed as an equivocal plea and the Court would treat this as a not guilty plea. To clarify, this would be the same as someone pleading guilty to a charge of speeding and saying that in mitigation they were not actually exceeding the speed limit, this is a defence, not mitigation.

With regards to any experts costs, this will vary depending upon who you use. However, typically speaking for a simple back calculation, most experts will charge in the region of £200 to prepare a report. You would then need to serve any report on the Court and prosecution, and the expert would only be required to attend in person if the prosecution needed them to. Even then the Court would normally cover the cost of their attendance, however this is not guaranteed and if the Court refused payment of their fees then they would look to you to cove this cost. I would advise speaking to any experts directly about this.
 
If i was going to walk the 2 minutes home the next day and either get my partner to pick up my vehicle or take a home breathalyzer kit until it showed i was ready to drive isnt this enough to show i wasnt going to drive?

i dont understand how a toxicology report saying when i would be fit to drive would even help if i was going to get my partner to pick it up or just leave it where it was for over 30 hours anyway.

if an expert deemed me ready to drive at 3pm how does this prove i wasnt going to drive it until then? It seems a waste of money?

i know its me who had to prove i was not planning on driving the vehicle but how cant they take my word for it? Its not like i was in a different area or city and needed to drive. I was literaly parked 1 mile away from my front door and using the car as a tent for the night.

i feel like i want to plead not guilty but if found guilty they are going to punish me more
if i plea guilty it doesnt look like il get away with just points

thanks again
 
I also cant get my head around how can anything that is said show that i wasnt going to drive before a certain time, it seems it all comes down wether or not they believe my story?

how can they not accept that i was just going to walk a mile home in the morning and take my home breathalyzer kits until it said i was ready, or ask my sober partner to pick it up for me as shes insured

there is no way of proving this? Only word of mouth and if they believe me or not, is this correct?

also it seems like i will be banned pleading guilty so im tepted to plead not guilty and just give them my story
either way it seems a ban is an outcome

if i plead not guilty and im found guilty do you think there is a chance of a custodoal scentence?

Thank you
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the multiple replies the forum wont allow me to edit my post anymore

If i plead not guilty and provide them with my facts(story) will their satisifaction in anyway be influenced by my previous convictions? Will they think "oh he must be a liar as he has previous" or does it not have any effect at all?
 
First and foremost there is a difference between whether you intended to drive and whether there was any likelihood of you driving. To clarify, you can explain to the Court that you were not intending to drive the vehicle until the next day, however you would have to explain why this was the case. If, for example you had plans the next day that would normally have required you to drive then the prosecution will question the accuracy of what you are saying. They will undoubtedly also point to the fact that your engine was running at the time they arrived, and yes, they will almost certainly reference your previous convictions. This does not automatically mean that you will not be believed, but it is not as simple as stating that you didn't intend to drive so you are not guilty. The Court will have to consider all the facts of the case and decide whether there was any likelihood of you driving the vehicle or not.

This is why an expert's report can be beneficial. If you do not have any report then you cannot accurately say when you would have been below the limit. Therefore all you can say is that by the time you next intended to drive the vehicle you would have been under the limit. If the Court feel that you may have driven earlier than this then it may well be difficult to prove whether you would have been over or under the limit at this time. An expert's report removes a large part of this doubt.
 
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